<p>Yes. The competition in Asia is fierce. I’m Asian too but I do NOT even come CLOSE to associating with them unless they prove once and for all that they’re not elitist “i’ll beat you up” types with grades or in ANYTHING. In fact, I have 0 Asian friends. What are my grades? Same or higher than theirs (this semester; the past few years I crashed, but if I’m anywhere like them you think I would even slide?) but I don’t study and act like I’m better than everyone. Seriously, people all make their choices and they have their own reasons I don’t freakin’ know so why go around and hit people with low grades? Unless you read a 500 page book on their life on why they are the way they are, you may be surprised that if you were in his shoes you would do exactly the same thing: get low grades.</p>
<p>All the Asians I’ve come close with love getting high grades and I hate them to death. I even tell them I get Cs and Ds right now so they can back off of me. I’d rather seem them be snobbish around me and laugh at me than ever befriend them. Last thing I want is compete against people. I just do my best and hope for the best; what else is there to be done besides that?</p>
<p>I went to an Asian school when I was elementary and I was #1 in my class because of parental pressure and all that BS but later I moved out of that craphole because everyone else wanted to beat me and some even stole my homework and awards to throw me off. Didn’t care if I got whipped by my parents for not being one of those Type A person. I learn for the sake of the love of learning, not to go sky-high and beat everyone else up in stats. </p>
<p>However, that being said, I have met a few Asians who are high academic achievers and never talk about their grades or any comparisons among other students, so don’t put me in the stereotyping section. But those are very few compared to grade-lubbers I’ve seen.</p>
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<p>If I had to compare American students with Asian students, they’re all the same. They all can excell in academics if they wanted to, and as far as I can see, the Americans are no worse with Asians. Race has nothing to do with this. But the attitude towards academics is definitely different between these two.</p>
<p>What really ****ed me off about the article was the blatant negative stereo-typing. The truth is that American and International students each have their own strengths and weaknesses in academics. I’ll concede that American freshman may not perform as well as international freshman in introductory classes, but this difference dissapears at high levels. I would even give the American students the edge in high level classes/research in many cases (depending on the subject).</p>
<p>I don’t view Asians as superior in Academics to any other race. If anyone starts doing that then I’ll even go as far as becoming racist against my own race to defend the others.</p>
<p>Don’t know if anyone has said this (no way im reading 13 pages worth of posts) but the international students at American colleges are going to be the most ambitious and hardest-working (logically, it would seem that way)</p>
<p>There is lazy and hard working people everywhere. But if you look closely, Asians and Indians tend to be more academically driven. This may not always be a good thing, but it’s because of their culture. Why work hard when you have the luxury of failing?</p>
<p>Motivation may be one of the main reasons why we see difference between one group and another. How do Asians that immigrated here generations ago do?</p>
<p>My dad taught some undergrad CS at UC berkeley. His impression was that aptitudes were similar across races, but the asians (ethnic, not nationality) worked much harder.</p>
<p>My personal opinion as a parent of HS seniors is that grade inflation has corrupted American kids. Most kids are not self motivated to learn, or ‘passionate’ about something other than sex or drugs. Typically sports might be something that a kid can honestly say they enjoy. School is something to do well enough in to avoid conflict with the parents. So kids internalize that 'B’s or 'A’s are the goal, and it doesn’t matter how easy it is go get them. In fact, the easier the better. Now throw grade inflation into the mix, and only the reality blinded are surprised by a nation of kids who are pathetic compared to many an international group.</p>
<p>Incidentally, it would be a mistake to think that colleges are not mired in the muck of grade inflation too. My son reports that homework is 30% of final grades.</p>
<p>People who are quick to dismiss international student superiority as simply a matter of selection are ignoring the obvious, that these students are excelling despite language and cultural handicaps.</p>
<p>Whoa, dude, don’t start hating. Just because you’ve met some Asians who are snobbish does not mean that all of them are. The competition is fierce, especially for us in the US because we don’t have “permanent resident status” or “US citizenship.” Don’t get me wrong, we’re still “legal resident Aliens.” Do you have any idea how much is denied of us? Whether we’re 200% better than our American counterparts?</p>
<p>The National Merit Scholarship association doesn’t care if I get a 240 on my PSAT: I’m gonna get their scholarship, just because I’m not American. Think that’s fair? Think again. International students (even those who’ve lived in one state in the US all their lives) DO NOT RECEIVE IN-STATE TUITION AT MOST UNIVERSITIES, even flagships. In addition, THEY DO NOT RECEIVE NEED-BLIND ADMISSIONS, or do THEY QUALIFY FOR MOST FINANCIAL AID, regardless of their economic status. Furthermore, THEY DO NOT QUALIFY FOR MERIT-BASED SCHOLARSHIPS. How the hell is a poor Asian going to pay $25,000 per year to go to school?</p>
<p>I’ll tell you how: by studying his or her butt off and hopefully being accepted into one of the better institutions where money is sometimes given to them so that THEY CAN EVEN HAVE AN EDUCATION.</p>
<p>So, before you start hating those “anti-social Asians who know nothing but good grades,” think about what we’re going through, will you?</p>
<p>I am going to have the students I teach read this next week when school reopens, they are 11th and 12th graders. At least they will learn how they are perceived, but they probably already know this, it will serve as a reminder.</p>
<p>Yuechen, very appropriate post, thank you.
I will point out, however, that the law is presumably meant to prevent aliens from receiving societal benefits who have not contributed. The situation wherein a person works in the US and pays taxes like everybody else, but whose children do not receive benefits is unfair. I presume you are this latter case, and I agree you are not being treated fairly.</p>
<p>Whether you want to label some Americans as lazy or not is irrelevant. Different cultures place value in different aspects of life. Education is no different. Yes, the average international student works harder academically than the average American college student. This is most likely because they, their family, and their culture place a great deal of value on academic success and hard work (compared to the average American). However, the average American defines success more in terms of being social. That’s my opinion.</p>
<p>Concerning the conversation on cheating in schools, this article ran in the Brown Daily Herald this fall in response to a poll of students on campus:</p>
<p>The comment that this number seems about right because the school does not have a “cutthroat academic environment” disturbs me. If such a high percentage of students (of all sorts, international or not) is considered normal for a low-stress environment, what would these numbers be at ultra-competitive schools? It seems, based on these results and the anecdotal evidence here, that cheating is relatively common at colleges, and such a large percentage suggests that it’s likely not just one group of students guilty of it; I’m inclined to believe that it’s both Americans and international students.</p>
<p>I think their performance has a lot to do with the comparatively low standards American high school students are held to. American students definitely can be lazy (I’m one of them, but I know I can’t speak for all) and this is because they can get away with it and still manage decent grades.</p>
Not at my son’s high school, they can’t. And I’m sure there are plenty of others like it. I don’t doubt there are lots of high schools with low standards and rampant grade inflation in the US, but it’s far from a universal phenomenon.</p>
<p>We’re attempting to separate out millions (and in the case of China and India, billions) of people into arbitrary groups and assign them all arbitrary personality traits based on our own relatively brief interactions in a college setting that most people will never experience. We need lazy stereotypes or else we’ll have to start treating people like individuals instead of countries.</p>
<p>^ From the original article. We in this thread may be assigning arbitrary personality traits, but the article’s author was making a factual observation based on their experience.</p>
<p>The article is based on observation. This thread, however, has comments that run along the lines of, “I saw a bunch of Chinese kids in my class cheating, so there must be something in China’s culture that encourages cheating.” It takes a valid factual observation (I saw kids cheating) and mixes it in with a somewhat grand conclusion (China’s culture encourages academic dishonesty). I understand what this thread is about and I get where a lot of these people on this thread are coming from, but maybe it would be easier to understand laziness and academic dishonesty if we treated it as a result of an individual’s personality trait and not as a result of what country his parents were born in.</p>
<p>Here is a Response from the Dean to the article which talks about how accomplished Babson students are at school and in the world. It was on the Babson blog page:</p>
<p>"The original piece and the many resulting comments on it cannot change one irrefutable fact: Babson is one of the most diverse academic communities in this country, with dedicated students, faculty and staff who are highly motivated and driven to excellence. This is supported by fact after fact and anecdote after anecdote: highly selective admission, one of the highest percentages of international and U.S. multicultural students in the country, phenomenal success in the job market, Fulbright scholars, student service projects in all corners of the globe, and the list could go on for pages. To achieve this kind of success, we have actively sought out the best and brightest from all corners of the globe and from many different backgrounds. What we have at Babson is truly unique one of the most diverse and talented groups of students in the world. You cant find another group like it anywhere.</p>
<p>Im fortunate to have a big picture view of Babson that is developed from the opportunity I have to get to know and work with almost every undergraduate on this campus. It is clearly not a place for lazy students American or otherwise. It is a place where students are challenged and a place that values the diversity of opinions and experiences that individuals bring to the community. This is what makes Babson strong, exciting and thriving. While I certainly dont agree with the conclusions reached by Miller, Im excited to engage in the important dialogue her opinion has spurred. The dialogue will be hard work and must include the entire community, but I know we are all up to the challenge!</p>
And by the way, I didn’t want to get all fired up, but it’s just been on my mind lately.</p>