My meeting with a financial planner, some helpful tips

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<p>I’ve had the Fidelity Brokeragelink option in my 401K since around 2000. It allows me to go long, short, double long, double short, triple long, triple short, buy gold and silver bullion, invest in thousands of US and foreign stocks, tons of mutual funds, buy all kinds of bonds and CDs. They offer the ability to trade options too but my employer didn’t pick up this option.</p>

<p>If you’re an employer and don’t like your employees complaining about choices, Fidelity Brokeragelink will silence the complaints.</p>

<p>SteveMa, I don’t quite understand this, but we are getting closer. </p>

<p>“Our break even point is 3 years–if we are on claim for less than 3 years and have to move into a nursing home, we will have to pay some of that cost out of pocket for about 3 years, roughly $50/day in today’s dollars”</p>

<p>That doesn’t quite make sense to me. Let’s say I receive in home care for 5 years… How does this affect my nursing home coverage?
I am not sure why receiving in home care for fewer than three years affects nursing home coverage for 3 years. Maybe I am reading this wrong.</p>

<p>After 30 years, do your premiums stop? Or do you just pay them until you need the coverage? </p>

<p>Your inflation protection is CPI?</p>

<p>Is your coverage available today for 1333 a year? How old do you have to be to get your coverage for $1333 a year? You read younger than me. Lol</p>

<p>We recently met with a cfp because we keep wondering where it is all going…
and a cash flow was :(</p>

<p>anyhoo…</p>

<p>what we have done right:</p>

<p>life insurance to protect us and the kids til they are out of college…while short of what we really “need” per industry standards, it is a far cry from where we were 2 yrs ago</p>

<p>wills and power of atty, living wills…we did ours about 12 yrs ago and will be mtg with legal counsel to update it all next week</p>

<p>umbrella-- we did this to cover us now that we have teen/young adult drivers</p>

<p>health insurance-- both k1 and k2 are on our policy. we pay for the full boat insurance at the U and while some may overlap we didn’t want to be haggling or worrying about PPOs 1500 miles away. we’ll do the same for k2</p>

<p>no credit card debt</p>

<p>no student loans</p>

<p>we have thought about LTC because it is a potential risk. My parents have pretty much lst all $ and have the house…with my mom’s battle with cancer – we are considering a cancer policy…</p>

<p>You CAN generalize about LTC. LTC insurers have the best actuaries and the best accountants on the planet. They will WIN. Overall. Each case will be different, of course. But they’ve figured out all the different cases. They will win - even after paying salaries for all those actuaries, accountants, salespeople, back office staff, company presidents, and all their pensions, for the next 30 years. They will win…</p>

<p>(which means, on average, you…)</p>

<p>dstark–we have the $280/day coverage. Say we go on a claim tomorrow, we have a 3 month elimination period (deductible) that we pay out of pocket for, after that we have up to $280/day coverage for care either in our home or in a nursing home. Say we start in our home but only need 2 hours/day and that adds up to $50. The LTC policy pays them the $50 and the $230 remaining is banked for future use. Those future use dollars add up and help off-set the nursing home care down the road, so that $280/day becomes say $330/day (average cost for a nursing home here). Remember, we banked the $230/day so that stretches the funds out longer. The math is probably a bit off because I haven’t recalculated in the past couple years with the increased costs but it’s about there.</p>

<p>Our annual premiums are not the level of coverage we get. That is how much we pay for the policy. Liken it to your homeowner’s insurance, say your annual premium is $1000. You don’t just have $1000 in coverage for your house, you have $350,000 or whatever plus all the liability, etc.</p>

<p>We started our policies when we were 43 because it was cheap then. We ran the numbers starting our policies at 43, 50, 60 and even starting 20 years earlier we are paying less over time. We keep paying our policies until we need them but once you go on a claim your payments stop for as long as you are on claim. That 30 years is just a number assumed based on family history. Even if we pay for 60 years, the premiums still won’t add up to one year’s worth of coverage-meaning we will get more out of the policies then we paid into the policies–even if just one of us ever needs these, they will more than pay for themselves.</p>

<p>I wrote coverage instead of premium. Sorry about that. </p>

<p>Ok SteveMA, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it.</p>

<p>403b plans are for education and health care employees.</p>

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<p>Yes, they will win, the way my life insurance company wins when I don’t die, and my homeowners policy wins when my house does not burn down, and the way my auto insurance of the past 40 years has won since i paid all those premiums and never made a claim.</p>

<p>Someone wins on the insurance, when they lose at life. LTC, like other coverage, is covering those who need it too soon more than anything. There are some LTC plans which will pay either a life insurance lump sum or a daily benefit which essentially pays up to twice the face amount of the life insurance or there are not life insurance plans with riders for lifetime care, in other words they treat the policy as if you died when you beginning needing the ADL care. These are on lifetime plans, with which some people disagree, but there are situations where a lifetime plan works well.</p>

<p>There are situations when virtually any plan “works” well. But, on the whole, you can self-insure for much, much, much less.</p>

<p>LTC - We went to a financial class at the CC a few years ago. The teacher (a financial advisor) claimed the majority of claims are for home services, not nursing homes.</p>

<p>mini–really–how much do you have set aside for long term care? You would rather pay out of pocket for something like that then leave your money to your kids/charities, etc.?</p>

<p>[Long-Term</a> Health Care: Higher Costs, Less Coverage](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Long-Term Health Care: Higher Costs, Less Coverage | HuffPost Life)</p>

<p>[Long-Term</a> Care Insurance: The Risks and Benefits | Nolo.com](<a href=“http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/long-term-care-insurance-risks-benefits-30043.html]Long-Term”>Is Long-Term Care Insurance Worth Buying? | Nolo)</p>

<p>As a federal employee, I carry LTC coverage through their long term care insurance program. The employee pays the full premium of the plan administered by John Hancock. The website for ltcfeds has several calculators to give you an idea of the cost of various plans.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Signed up for an umbrella liability policy in NJ years ago because it was very cheap. By the time we left it was no longer cheap. Can’t recall the numbers but it went up a shocking amount. Still have one now in NC; it is more reasonable.</p></li>
<li><p>No 401ks, only IRAs + a few odds and ends.</p></li>
<li><p>That’s an interesting idea - paying to freeze credit reports. I don’t tend to apply for credit much these days, what with no job and no income. I do get plenty of credit card offers. I wonder if they would actually approve me if I applied. </p></li>
<li><p>No LTC insurance. Rolling the dice. Wife wants to be put out on an ice floe when her time comes. We do have a living will, which I reluctantly signed. (because what I really want is to live forever)</p></li>
<li><p>We make sure kids have health insurance, one was through his school - is now employed. The other is in school but has a private plan. No liability insurance for the kids though. Which reminds me (grrrr) we pi**** away about $900 because we had to pay the university in advance for a full year of health insurance even though my son was graduating in December. The deadline for filing for a prorated refund was in January and he didn’t get a job until March. I suppose we could have gone private pay for a few months, but who knew?</p></li>
<li><p>Most of my accounts are with Schwab. No maintenance fees, no-fee banking, their ETF fees I believe are the lowest in the industry. We have maintained some smaller accounts with firms that charge some hefty maintenance fees, mostly out of inertia, but also to postpone the taxable event of cashing out and moving the money. Also feel the need to slightly diversify our brokerage accounts. I don’t want one guy to be able to steal ALL of our money. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Sounds like a good meeting. Looks like some of the advice was tailored to your needs, not presented as universal truths.</p>

<p>My company offered an LTC and the premiums were ridiculous! I’ll check into other plans by 55. The big “A” does run in my family :-(.</p>

<p>I’m also interested in item #3! How many agencies did you pay? I know there are the “big 3” but are there others?</p>

<p>A couple of random comments. It is quite easy to freeze your credit history. I believe we sent notarized letters to each of the three agencies, one letter for each spouse and a $12 fee along with each, so $72 total. Wanting to test the effectiveness of this freeze, I attempted to open a charge card to use for foreign travel. The bank was unable to verify our credit, so I have decided that the freeze works.</p>

<p>Re: LTC. My parents had it and there were plenty of elimination periods and qualifying events to satisfy before a dollar was paid out. The plan’s daily benefit limit operated as Steve described with unused daily dollars carried forward. The plan had a five year and $300K benefit limit. The catch was that the plan had a 100 day elimination period during which the insured had to be receiving care from a licensed care provider AND unable to complete two (or three?) of the Activities of Daily Living. </p>

<p>I guess it comes down to one’s threshold for risk, but I am comfortable self-insuring that benefit level. </p>

<p>Question for those who have children on school medical insurance…is it only the hassles/restrictions of dealing with out-of-area provider networks that causes you to pay for school health care or is there something else I should be considering?</p>

<p>Thanks for the reminder about the umbrella policy. Know that I looked into this once but can’t recall what we did about it. Great post, OP.</p>

<p>“mini–really–how much do you have set aside for long term care? You would rather pay out of pocket for something like that then leave your money to your kids/charities, etc.?”</p>

<p>I probably have $400k for that purpose as of right now, and it continues to mount up. Maximum 403bs plus maximum Roth IRAs in standard, plain vanilla, low cost mutual funds, tax-free, no middle man, no sales costs, no actuaries arrayed against me. It will probably triple by the time I ever need it. </p>

<p>(As for my kids, they can fend for themselves. Though the reality is that there will likely be plenty for them too if I don’t figure out a way to give it away more quickly.)</p>

<p>From DStark’s link:</p>

<p>"The Odds of a Long Nursing Facility Stay</p>

<p>Most people will not spend years and years in a nursing facility.</p>

<pre><code>Two-thirds of all men, and one-third of all women, age 65 and older will never spend a day in a nursing facility.
Most nursing facility stays are brief – only about 10% of men and 25% of women age 65 and older spend more than a year in a nursing facility.
Only 10% of all nursing facility residents will stay longer than three years.
More than half of all nursing facility stays last six months or less. The average stay of those who enter a custodial care facility is about 18 to 20 months.
</code></pre>

<p>The Performance of Long-Term Care Insurance</p>

<p>The relatively slight chance that an elder will need three or more years of nursing facility care means that insurance companies do not pay out on their policies to nearly the extent that they suggest when they sell the policy. When the policies’ conditions, exclusions, and benefit limits are figured in, the performance of these policies has been quite poor – at least in the decade of the 1990s, for which complete statistics are available:</p>

<pre><code>About half of all LTC policies lapsed before any benefits were paid; policy holders were unable or unwilling to continue paying their premiums.
Of those people who bought insurance and later entered a nursing facility, about half never collected a dollar from their LTC policies.
No benefits were ever paid to the many people who bought nursing facility coverage but instead received home care or entered a residential facility not covered by the insurance.
When LTC benefits were paid, they were usually far below the actual cost of care.
For many of the longest-term residents, benefits were used up before the nursing facility stay ended.
</code></pre>

<p>In all of these situations, LTC insurance failed to live up to its promise to help people avoid using up their savings or relying on Medicaid to pay for long-term care. In other words, it was a lousy investment.
Improvements in LTC Insurance</p>

<p>In response to pressure from consumer groups, embarrassing media exposure, and increased competition from other insurers joining the market, LTC policies have improved somewhat in recent years. These improvements include clearer terms and conditions, which give consumers a better idea what to expect for their money. Many policies now offer extended coverage to include some types of assisted living residences in addition to regular nursing facilities. A number of policies permit elders to use a pool of benefit funds for either home care or residential long-term care, rather than only for one or the other. Requirements to qualify for benefits have also been loosened somewhat, and policies now routinely permit the policy holder to “step down” to lower levels of coverage, for a lower premium, if continuing to pay for the higher benefits becomes too financially burdensome.
Deciding Whether to Buy LTC Insurance</p>

<p>Consumer and financial experts generally agree that LTC insurance is a bad investment unless the monthly premium is 5% or less of your monthly income. When calculating this 5% figure for future years, bear in mind that your premiums are likely to rise, while your income will probably drop."</p>

<p>Now, to be fair, I also have another “out”: my home in rural South India.</p>

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<p>Ummm, saving for retirement is so that you have money for expenses during retirement. Leaving an inheritance is just the side effect of dying before you run out of money for your expenses.</p>

<p>Regarding credit reports, there are typically three security states that they can be in:</p>

<ul>
<li>Default no security.</li>
<li>Fraud alert – informs lenders to do additional identity verification. May block or slow down “instant credit” (e.g. at retailers) or opening of credit accounts on the web or by mail (which is considered a desired effect by many who put fraud alert on their credit reports). No charge.</li>
<li>Credit freeze – not accessible to new credit grantors unless specifically unfrozen. Credit reporting companies charge a fee to freeze and unfreeze.</li>
</ul>

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<p>This explains a lot of the conflicting views on LTC policies. They have become much more expensive in recent years, as mentioned in Dstark’s first link from post #32:</p>

<p>". . .premiums on existing policies will be a lot less than what customers would pay for a new policy today, John Hancock said in a statement. The firm is seeking rate hikes of about 40 percent, on average, in all 50 states for both individual and group policyholders. Minnesota and Illinois are two states besides Nebraska where some policyholders have seen 90 percent increases.Other insurers are pulling back altogether in the face of rising nursing home costs and an aging population. "</p>

<p>I envy those who got their LTC policies while they were still a good deal. Although many people think they will somehow “end it” when they become incapacitated, the news has been full of tragic stories of spouses accused of murder because they tried to help their partner fulfill these wishes.</p>

<p>LTC has been maybe the best investment my parents ever made. If they both live to the end of the 4-year benefit period, they will have gotten $250K in exchange for about $30K paid in. They bought their policies back in the early 90s, before it became a hot thing, and the premiums were very low. I read somewhere that back then, insurance companies had no idea how long these people would live and how much care they’d need. Genworth lost on my parents, big-time. BUT such great deals are no longer available.</p>

<p>All insurance is a crapshoot. You weigh the current known cost versus the potential future benefit. But it’s harder to make that calculation for LTC than for most insurance. The current known cost is hefty, but the future benefit is potentially a game-changer. POTENTIALLY. The future benefit could also be exactly zero. And there is no way to know which way it will go when you’re buying the policy.</p>

<p>Another thing to know about LTC is that it’s tricky about paying out benefits. The insured must be unable to perform 2 or 3 (policies vary) of the Activities of Daily Living (dressing, bathing, transfer, etc.) The insurance company decides this, not the insured. A person can be very, very sick but still able to dress and take a shower – no payout.</p>

<p>BTW, LTC doesn’t just pay out for nursing homes. It can also pay if the insured is in Assisted Living, or even at home.</p>