I had a look around the websites for UIUC and the University of Washington, and the news is a mixed bag. At UIUC, the SAT midrange for the college of engineering is 1400-1510 (CR+M). The acceptance rate is a tad below 50% I believe (had to find the latter figure from an external source, as it wasn’t given on the UIUC web page). Your son’s score of 1420 would be on the lower end, but not dramatically so - with a NE prep school curriculum, he just might have a shot.
At UW, the news is similar: no SAT midrange is given for the college of engineering, but with an admission rate of 40% for CS and GPAs ranging from 3.4 to 4.0 (this may be the midrange - the site doesn’t say) it seems like another school that might be a low to mid reach. It should be noted that those acceptance rates are for a very self-selecting pool of students, but neither of these stands out to me as a high reach. Either school may be tougher for OOS students - I wouldn’t know, but perhaps someone else here does.
Both would likely be full pay (or something close to it) so be aware of that. I would definitely ask your son’s admissions counselor what he thinks of these schools, as GCs are paid to do what CC posters only dabble in, and he/she definitely knows something I don’t. What it might be, I can’t say - whatever it is, it’s one of what Donald Rumsfeld would call “unknown unknowns.”
The ideal outcome at this point would be a slight increase in SAT score - if your son can bump his CR+M score up another 50 points, or his 3-section composite by 100, that’ll shift his application up a tier at most schools (a higher math score would be especially good for a prospective engineering/CS major). Not enough for Ivies or equivalent schools (MIT, Stanford, UChicago) - which are still a reach even for kids with a 4.0, 2400, and a few 800s on their SAT II - but a boost at any school with a sane admissions process.
Someone who “should be accepted to RPI” doesn’t sound like a MIT shoo-in, especially with a 2000 SAT score. It sounds like his SAT doesn’t match your goals for him.
My son didn’t get into WPI, and did get into RPI. WPI sounded pretty neat to us, and we considered it pretty much on par with RPI. Perfect math SAT and Math II subject. Came in with 20 AP credits.
I don’t get how your son “can’t get into anywhere” based on the reps of some of those schools, but can get into WPI.
I’m not trying to be callous… just realistic- but don’t mean to ‘pile on’. Based on your posts in this thread, you are only coming to the realization now that sacrificing so much for a private school (and hard work on the part of your son) doesn’t equate to Ivy League admittance. Also, Ivy League does not always equal more success (I’m sure it helps). We all want the best for our kids - read some of these threads though, EVERYONE has an Ivy dream (including my kids). Its crazy. Even though my son has 3.97 GPA, etc… I pretty much squashed his Ivy dreams already. He will apply to 1- as a reach.
Considering his list has no matches and he’s being unreasonable, I’m sure he is feeding off the false hope:
“I guess hope does spring eternal and we keep “hoping” he’ll get in somewhere he wants to go. He is applying EA to MIT and ED to Cornell in hopes that will boost his chances.”
Actually, University of Washington/Seattle has an excellent CS program, and in some ways, much more organic ties (e.g. professional opportunities) to the tech field. If you are willing to pay OOS, I would consider it…plus, it beeeeautiful.
Stony Brook University (SUNY) has a highly rated computer science program. Would be a good fit for your son’s stats. (Keep in mind that the STEM students will have a higher SAT score profile than the aggregate scores as reported in the common data sets). OOS tuition in NY is still pretty reasonable.
Another perspective, that may help you to recalibrate. Ten years ago I figured my kids would attend the state u and become engineers just like pops. Liberal arts was IMO just prep school for law school. Now all three are LAC oriented and will do fine. Based on my 40 years of experience it does not matter where you get your techie diploma from as long as you don’t reach too low. There are dozens of great techie program within 4 hours of your home. Oh…almost forgot…I am a Harvard legacy…but it does not matter among my techie peers.
Another thing…the techies who do best have LAC-type skills.
@boolaHI Would you happen to have more info on the competitiveness of CS admissions at the University of Washington? As detailed in my previous posts, I couldn’t find all that much information on admissions statistics for engineering or specifically for CS, and I think that would help OP and her son make an informed decision.
@NotVerySmart Here are a couple quick notes on the admissions at UDub CS–In short, its pretty competitive, not MIT/CMU level, but pretty robust–
How competitive is the Regular Admission process?
Unfortunately the Regular Admission process is competitive, meaning we don’t have room for all students wishing to study computer science or computer engineering at UW. What we generally tell students is that the higher your grades are once you enter UW, the higher your chances of admittance will be in the future. Right now the average gpa is around a 3.7 with a range from 3.3 to 4.0. Approximately 30-40% of all students applying will get admitted, but again, keep in mind that if you have high grades, your chances would be much higher. Our best advice is that if you are admitted directly into another computer science program and would be extremely stressed by not being coded into your major directly as a freshman, it may be best to accept the other offer.
Is there a minimum grade point average for an application to be considered?
Competitive applicants generally have a high school GPA of 3.8 or above.
Do you expect students to have computing experience in high school?
We do not expect high school applicants to have any computing experience. Computer science and engineering are intellectual challenges first and foremost, so we look for those students who demonstrate academic excellence and leadership. In particular, we look for students who excel in math and the sciences (especially physics) and also in English and other writing/communications courses.
How many students are offered Direct Admission?
We admit only a small number of students through the Direct Admission program. It’s roughly 20% of our annual cohort, which is approximately 40 students. We usually offer around 120 slots and expect a yield of 40. Please note that due to the very small number of Direct Admission slots, the vast majority of students enter our program through our regular admission process. There are hundreds of students with amazing grades and test scores who are not offered Direct Admission. We do not make late offers, so if you fall into this catagory, you should focus on our Regular Admission process. We understand this is incredibly frustrating, but unfortunately this is the current situation.
Harvey Mudd was mentioned above, but he is not competitive for admission there, either.
The kids who get in will have SATs that look more like 2300 than 2000, GPAs that look more like 3.8+ than 3.6, and will have very strong and possibly unusual ECs in the STEM areas. Would it be fair to let your son in when he has not met any of those marks? You are feeling sorry for yourself… it would be a lot better to expand your search (Lehigh is a good suggestion from above), instead of complaining that it is somehow someone else’s fault and “giving up”. If you take that attitude, what attitude can you expect your son to take?
While there have been some helpful responses here, I had wrongly assumed this was a supportive community - I not looking for criticism from trolls who know virtually nothing about our family. Clearly looking for empathy from snobby, elitist "human beings"is a horrible crime. I sincerely apologize for breathing your air. Just remember, you get back what you give out. Good luck with all that.
Agreed, most kids with a 2000+ ACT and a 3.6 can handle the work say at H and Y, but that’s not the point. Moreover, the places I have personally seen a kid struggle are at science/ math intensive places like MIT and CalTech, where there is super thickness in the quality of student body as applied to the sciences/math, you don’t do anyone a favor placing an underprepared kid in that type of pressure cooker.
@Madge1234 You seem to be taking this very personally. This community is supportive but it’s also realistic. You came into the thread seemingly sure that your son had a good chance at MIT and the Ivy leagues. He doesn’t. You don’t like the answers you’re getting and that’s fine, but don’t blame the community for being honest and then throw a fit blaming the system. This community isn’t here to assure you that everything is a-okay when it isn’t, especially when you have unrealistic expectations. Your son can get into some great schools, just not HYPSM.
But I think that we can all be kind. Moms posting who are new to the college apps are really just trying like all of us. Before I posted I lurked a lot, reading and researching. So I wasn’t posting totally blind posting but still got some harsh critiques. And I know I’ve been guilty sometimes of the same. Just try to be kind to others. Remember we were all there once too. Expectant and hopeful for our kids.
@Madge1234, I hope you didn’t take my reply as too harsh. I never even read this forum but saw your question when browsing “Latest Posts.” Your comment about your son’s high school struck me because we went through this process last year at Choate, and I understand well the type of pool your son is competing in. My reply was meant to encourage you to let your son’s school do what they do best. They’ve been in this business a long, long time–depending on where he is, we could be talking over a hundred years, right? They know what they are doing. I hear your anxiety, but I firmly believe you can rely on your son and his GC to work magic together, magic in the sense of crafting a college list perfectly suited to helping your son achieve his very best which is the ultimate goal. School names don’t figure into it much.
You say your son isn’t interested in the schools on the GC’s list. Does he understand why the GC is recommending those schools? Do you? If you haven’t already, that is a conversation I believe both of you should have with the GC as it will provide some needed clarification and help set the proper expectations while also helping him to understand the value of the gems on the GC’s list which I’m sure have taken his regional preferences into consideration. But, I also suspect the GC is trying to broaden his idea of what a good engineering program looks like and that perhaps the best program for HIM may be outside of his box. Unless you have some unstated reason why your son is unable to attend college outside NE/NY/PA, perhaps this particular restriction is self-defeating.
You say you want to feel like all your “sacrifice to pay for HS wasn’t completely wasted.” It certainly was not unless you sent him there solely for a particular college result which no high school can guarantee. The NE boarding/prep schools in particular are quite upfront about dispelling the myth that they are (any longer) feeder schools to the Ivies; that is not what they are selling. You paid for the great education your son certainly consumed and for the excellent college counseling he is receiving. If he is not listening, then that is the waste.
Our son was also looking for a strong engineering program and though he was competitive for some of the usual suspects his GC, knowing him well, made some other fine suggestions (like GT and UIUC) to add to his list, and he did apply to those schools (and was accepted). He surprised us all by ending up at a service academy, a decision we’re still coming to terms with but for entirely different reasons. When I look at the college matriculation list for his school, I don’t see a clinker in the bunch. Every single student ended up at a fine school, perhaps not their first or second choice, but a fine school nonetheless. If they don’t get where they want to go in life, it won’t be due to the college they attended.
I guess my point here is to encourage you to work with your son’s GC, understand why the GC has suggested the schools s/he has, and be open to those suggestions. Your son will be fine. Really. I bet you will be able to come back here next year with an uplifting story of how he is thriving at and loving his college – wherever he ends up.
UMASS-Amherst has an excellent, highly ranked, computer science department.
Here is the Common Data Set for WPI. Page 12 has the statistics for the class that entered last fall. He would certainly be in the top half of the class. I understand the class that just entered had somewhat higher stats but I haven’t seen them.
@Madge1234, When I first came here, I felt as if I were being attacked by people who were really blunt about a few things – one of which was my daughters’ desires to stay in the New England area. When it came down to it, people were just being honest that things are both more expensive and more competitive here. It’s all about managing expectations for parents and the kids, and the experienced CC’ers tend to be blunt.
If it helps, the school you’ve sacrificed so much to send your son to is going to help him get into some schools he wouldn’t otherwise get into. Did they help him prep for SATs? Help him with college essays, or deadlines? Most public schools don’t do that. How many people is his guidance counselor responsible for? I’m guessing not the hundreds you can see in the public schools. He’s had an excellent HS education, one he’ll never forget. That will never leave him.
There are a lot of colleges that are going to be thrilled to have someone with your son’s scores, and he may very well be quite happy as a big fish in a “lesser” pond. If you want status and an extra challenge for him, go for an honors college. And the UMass CS dept is great – my cousin is a professor there.
