Did they all pursue the same majors and concentrations, and graduate with the same EC’s and GPA’s?
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That is a laughable list. All fine schools for sure. But give me a break. No MIchigan, UNC, UVA? A couple of those schools I have never even heard of. This is the same methodology that listed UVM as a public ivy way back when (as if).
Post #90 just above, published a day or two ago, has a similar “public ivy” list as does the Wiki page posted earlier.
Agree or disagree, it’s out there since 1985.
Regarding job readiness, my impression is that Ivy education is often more geared to prep for grad school (esp law, medical).
And high finance (investment banking, PE, etc.). The big block banks won’t touch a non-ivy grad without heavy, heavy networking. Pedigree matters.
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For IB, Ivy+/elite LAC have an advantage to be sure…but it’s a hard get requiring significant networking for those students too.
In non-IB depts, there are plenty of big bank employees who attended non-elite schools.
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Nate Silver’s father used to be a regular poster on CC. I saw a post from him several years ago and he may have changed his username since then.
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Agree. My oldest son is one of them (University of Arkansas Walton School)…
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This is actually changing quite a bit. We know several kids at elite state universities who have gotten summer consulting gigs at prestigious firms that were usually pipelines from the Ivys, much to the raised eyebrows of fellow interns. These come with job offers after graduation already set, some as early as after freshman year. And being from the East Coast, we know countless investment bankers who are from non-Ivy schools, all working on Wall Street.
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Of course not; they’re all individuals on different paths. And they graduated into different job markets, so direct comparisons are impossible.
Of the four of them, one was physics, one biology, on data science, and one economics. All of them had strong transcripts.
The Princeton physics kid had the best options. I would have expected that UCSD data science would have outperformed Duke bio, but I was wrong.
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Contrary to what you “hear” on CC, there are lots of investment banking opportunities for non ivy grads.
I have some in the family, met their friends. None of the ones I’ve met are ivy grads.
As for better college placement departments. I have one kid who graduated from a top research university and another who graduated from a state school albeit one that specializes in engineering and science.
The state school did circles around the better ranked school. Huge difference. Both kids got jobs and both are employed. But that first job and internship, the state school was much MUCH better.
Both kids have engineering degrees. Both universities were known for their engineering school.
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I would say the same thing for consulting…even Big 3 consulting.
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There are not “lots” of IB or consulting jobs for any graduate-yes, they are open to non-elite school kids, but these companies do not have huge entering classes of thousands of this year’s grads. Those jobs are competitive at any school, and only a small number at each company will be taken from any one college.
Freshman and sophomore summer programs are almost always reserved for diversity candidates.
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What you wrote is absolutely correct concerning the actual number of new hires each year at consulting firms, especially the Big 3. So clarification is required.
I believe from my limited knowledge base that the percentage of the new hires from non-Ivy schools is higher than people might expect…not that there are a large number of offers given out to new grads.
What I was responding to was the imo mistaken belief one must attend an Ivy to have a chance at one of those coveted position. The probability of anyone getting hired at certain firms is extremely low. Where it gets “fuzzy” is the part about “non-elite school kids”.
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Anecdotally, I’ve got a couple of friends whose kids are in IB or working at a hedge fund and they didn’t attend an Ivy. They were top students at their schools, though, in math heavy majors (don’t recall the specifics). Meanwhile, my friend’s kid is at Goldman via Princeton as an art history major. I agree that these jobs are probably more open to kids from a variety of schools than they ever have been, but my sense is that it is still much easier coming from an Ivy (understanding that these jobs are still a long shot for many of them).
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Perhaps, but I believe more are wondering if it’s the actual Ivy education (the individual) OR are the job placement stats reflecting the wealth/connections of certain admitted students.
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For what it’s worth, in my child’s cohort at a top investment bank there were very few students that weren’t from a top 25 university, or a similarly selective LAC. The student from Alabama was a rare exception.
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I have no close experience with investment banking…that very well may be the case. My friends who have kids in IB are few in number. I’m not even sure at what firms they work.
However when it comes to consulting I know a lot of people (in the 25-30ish range). Some of what I see may be regional, but from what I hear I would temper expectations when it comes to hiring. Across the board, start dates are being pushed back.
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That does indicate recruiting well beyond the Ivies…
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I remember conversing him way back on the Princeton Review discussion board, before I discovered CC. I’m talking about like twenty years ago. His son was just getting known for his baseball stats analysis.