<p>It was 116 here in Redlands the other day–abt 107 today. I can take the heat (grew up in Barstow), but this humidity just kills me! Down the road in Palm Springs it hit 122----“I’m melting…!!!”</p>
<p>usna09mom: I was wondering if he might have a civil suit against her as well. I obviously think the whole atmosphere that they were both involved in (drinking etc…) were unprofessional/unsafe conduct.Both parties could have easily avoided this situation completely by doing what I say daily to my 15 year old boy “use good choices”.</p>
<p>I would agree with Bill0510 that Owens is not a victim, after all he did knowingly break the Naval Academy regulations for sexual conduct and disobeyed a direct order. The jury rightfully found him guilty on those two counts.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with Bill0510 in that he would likely have been convicted in a civilian court. I feel jury members would find it incredulous that her roommate, nine feet away, heard no resistance and apparently the “victim” was awake when he first came into the room (the accuser it was Owens and I assume he did not leave a calling card). Additionally, Owens had several disadvantages in the military court. The jury pool consisted of officers drawn from the command of the convening authority-- the Superintendent, Vice Admiral Rempt. This is the same command that sent out an email about the incident calling the accuser a “victim” and not an “alleged victim”. I think the officers on the jury showed great courage in their verdict and their judgement to give no punishment. Also, if I remember my military law correctly, guilty verdicts need not be unanimous in military trials. In this case, it was unanimous for aquittal on the rape charge.</p>
<p>I think a terrible precedent has been established if the accuser was granted immunity from judicial and non-judicial punsihment. With a zero tolerance policy, the likely punishment for future misconduct would be dismissal with the possibility of mandatory enlistment for upperclass and repayment of educational expenses. Of course, the female participant could attempt to avoid any punishment by claiming rape.</p>
<p>I think I would focus, in a civilian court, on the consent issue. consent is not dependent on whether or not somebody else in the room hear the admonition. That is, it doesn’t matter how loudly I scream “No” it only matters that I said “No.” I would, therefore, argue before the jury the classic “No” means “No” argument. The victim did not consent, plain and simple. [That’s how I would argue it at least, obviously, I have no idea what happened.] Once it is established that she did not consent, the rest is [or will be] history assuming the other elements are established. [Perhaps too graphic for a public website.]</p>
<p>Also, in a civilian world, the victims sexual history, etc. is much less likely to be introduced into evidence. [UCMJ, I think permits more of this discussion.] </p>
<p>As to her being “awake” in her room, I would simply emphasise that it was HER room. What else do you do in your room except sleep or be awake. They may have had a relationship of some sort, hence she was not concerned when he entered the room. They may have been out drinking together [disregarding regulatory violations] and she thought he was just checking on her. She invites him in for a moment and then [with a passed-out roommate sleeping soundly across the room] he attacks her against her will. Taking advantage of her intoxicated state, with the authority of an upperclass mid, he comletes the act against her will.</p>
<p>Bad situation all around.</p>
<p>Why did the alumin association members get involved. Did they think the charges against him were baseless? Were they concerned that a rape conviction would besmirch the Academy’s reputation? Would be interesting to know.</p>
<p>I would be careful in debating whether alumni association members were involved in providing legal guidance or representation. Many alumni are members of the association, and many are also lawyers and would be totally free to act or provide counsel or even monetary funding per IRS regulations. The Navy does not restrict even a Midshipman from having private counsel. The only tie with the USNA Alumni Association may be that alumni who are also association members provided funds or counsel. If the Association itself sought legal representation for MIDN Owens then that may be acting outside its by-laws.</p>
<p>Well, I have read the posts and, while not entirely suprised, am rather disappointed at many of the attitudes against the woman involved in this case. Oh it’s good to be the football star. As a mother of a female mid, I have counseled her over the years about personal responsibility and not putting yourself in situations where you lose control and put yourself at risk. The fact is that only 2 people really know what happened that night. The troubling thing to me is the jump to ruin the character of the alleged victim here. Owens apologized repeatedly to her, so obviously HE felt guilty about something and even was supposedly under suicide watch. Then he gets the high-powered lawyers versus the government paid ones and we are surprised at the verdict? Just because one is acquitted does not mean they are innocent. </p>
<p>Obviously there are no “winners” in this situation but it sure does discourage female mids from coming forward in a date rape situation now doesn’t it? Whose fault? Who knows really. But, to jump to Owens’ side when noone really knows what happened and both were allegedly drinking seems like the typical “good ol boys” response. The only thing I take from this whole thing is that my mid will have to watch herself even more because she will be ultimately the only one who can protect herself. God forbid a football (or other sport) star attack someone, the alumni association seemingly will do whatever it takes to make it go away.<br>
Tricia</p>
<p>I think my questions stands: I did not ask why the association [distinct from its members] get involved but, rather, why did Association members get involved? [This new formatting toolbar is GREAT!] I don’t surmise for a moment that the Association provided representation.</p>
<p>Naps05mom. If you are disappointed at these posts, you should read the posts from earlier this year. You would be DISAPPOINTED!. While I think females mids, in general, are much safer at the Academy than other institutions, there was an undercurrent of detest regarding the accuser that did not seem warranted. Especially by people that had no idea what had happened.</p>
<p>Bill, my daughter did tell me much of what was going on from what she heard on the inside and this accuser really did get a lot of grief from the brigade. When all of this happened, i remember saying, “Gee, I hope it REALLY did happen because otherwise, this young man’s life is ruined by possibly a young woman who has regrets for actions the night before”. But, I still can’t get away from the fact that Owens apologized over and over. While she was admittedly intoxicated, if we were to string up all the intoxicated college kids for just that we would have a long list. Like I said, I don’t know what happened as noone really does, but to assume that just because Owens was acquitted that he is “innocent” I think, is making a giant leap. </p>
<p>Tricia</p>
<p>Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. Keep your damned zipper up at school. You’re there to become Naval Officers, not the next porn star.</p>
<p>That is all.</p>
<p>Bill—with 1,000+ graduates each and every year to have one graduate or even perhaps a few stand up and provide funding for Lamar Owens doesn’t mean that they thought he was guilty or innocent but perhaps that they thought they could help him get the best counsel possible. The lawyers trying the case and defending the case are not the most experienced lawyers in the Navy. If I got in any judicial trouble and was at the Academy I would welcome a civilian lawyer and getting paid $700/month before taxes and obligations won’t buy to much. I thought it was very generous on their part. I doubt most families would have been able to afford an attorney for a case such as this.</p>
<p>As for posts saying that Lamar apologized…that doesn’t mean he thought he raped her but perhaps he felt that since they were both intoxicated that it wasn’t in the best interests of either party. Just another way at looking at what happened. Only the two parties involved and God know what really happened and the victim and Lamar will both have to live with their actions for the remainder of their lives.</p>
<p>Oh. . . I don’t have any problem with him getting the best counsel available. I would want my son/daughter to do the very same.
I don’t even think there is some insidious plot at work.
I just bring it up because many people are quick to criticize lawyers, the “system,” and how technicalities get too many guilty people off. Unless, of course, the accused is somebody in which they have an interest [child or fellow USNA grad] and then . . . well, I am just curious as to the motivation was behind these gents ponying up and getting this young man a very capable [expensive] defense? </p>
<p>Without the big-money/high-powered defense, would the result have been the same? Guess we could ask OJ.</p>
<p>“OJ”…Bill, you are absolutely clairvoyent because I was thinking exactly the same thing! </p>
<p>How about Navy Football???</p>
<p>It is equally likely that a really good defense lawyer was retained precisely because he was innocent.</p>
<p>Absolutely correct . . . .just like OJ!</p>
<p>Ahh yes, OJ…
That jury was truly an embarassment to all of us in Southern California.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>or because she was guilty…</p>
<p>Do we seriously believe though that this same foundation/alumni would do the same of any joe schmoe at the academy if not the star of the football team? Damage control if you ask me no matter what the real truth is.<br>
Tricia</p>
<p>Damage Control??? That seems like pure postulating… Something out of Conspiracy Theory maybe. There are a number of other reasons why alumni may have fronted him the money for a lawyer. The first one that personally comes to mind is that they see a young man that they have cheered on at football games. Someone that they watched week in and week out run one of the most phyically brutal offenses in college football. Watching that type of effort, toughness, and leadership on the football field and you can see how one of the thousands of alumni with extremely deep pockets may have fronted money to give Owens the best defense possible… I could be way off base, but it just seems to me that to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon just doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>But anyway, in the aftermath of this situation people seem to be questioning the safety of their daughters at the Naval Academy. And truthfully, they really are safer there then anywhere else. While rape is wrong and those who commit it need to be taken far away from the academy, I would be willing to say that 99% of the time women at the academy allow themselves to get into those threatening situations. That is not to say that they deserve what they get, or to condone any actions of male mids in those situations. However, female mids need to, and for the most part do, take the easy precautionary steps to avoid those situations. Like most any problem within a large group, its 10% of the people that cause 90% of the problem.</p>
<p>Itlstallion: Wow is all I have to say. I would hope you are not a parent of a female when you say that 99% of the cases it’s the women who put themselves in “those situations”. While I am a BIG believer in women avoiding dangerous situations as best they can, this is real life and any assault that becomes them is the fault of the perpetrator; not the victim. </p>
<p>As for the alumni assoc. supporting Owens, I do not subscribe to a conspiracy theory at all; but more of reality in looking at how football players across the country seem to live by a different standard. These kids are put up on pedestals from the time they are in pee wee football and standing out. It’s no wonder that many of them do get into trouble because they have been able to get away with living by different rules their whole lives. </p>
<p>As I stated before, only 2 people really know what happened that night and it is a tragedy all around. But, to attack the alleged victim I think is just plain wrong just because they were intoxicated. Also stated before, if we crucified every college kid that got drunk, we’d have a good majority in big trouble. As a parent of a female mid, I am saddened by your comments, but also not surprised. Amazing after 30 years, these females still have to fight attitudes such as this.
Tricia</p>
<p>Naps05mom,
I think you may have taken my one line out of context. I stated earlier that, “99% of the time women at the Academy allow themselves to get into those threatening situations.” However, I also stated that “That is not to say that they deserve what they get.” I never condemned female mids for the actions or said that they are somehow at fault for what happens. In cases pertaining to sexual assault they are NEVER at fault, nor should they ever be concieved as being at fault.</p>
<p>That being said, with the earlier statement I was only stating the perspective I have witnessed. Mids don’t go prowling at night looking for young women to sexually assault. By stating that 99% of time women allow themsleves to get in those situations is to state that 99% of the time there is alcohol and shady activity by all parties involved. By stating this I am also not crucifying anybody who drinks heavily either, nor am I stating that somehow this is somehow punishment or an example of someone getting what was coming to them. I would never wish sexual assault on anyone; woman, man, or child. </p>
<p>You also stated that female mids have to fight against the attitude of people such as me. It appears you took the one line that I wrote not only out of context to describe what I was attempting to say concerning sexual assault, but also what I said about women as a whole at the academy. In no way was I condemning women at the academy either. After stating that a few female mids allow themselves to get into threatening situations, I later wrote that for the most part females mids do avoid these situations. Female graduates of USNA are in no way a weaker or imcompetent version of their male counterparts. There are plenty of outstanding female ensigns and 2LTs that enter the fleet every May, and in my opinion females have every right to be members of the brigade as any man who has walked through the Naval Academy gates. </p>
<p>Before finishing I also wanted to look at your statement about the alumni association. While his counseling was funded by alumni, did the alumni association every openly support Owens before or during the court martial? I am not exactly an expert on the dealings of the alumni association, but I would be willing to bet they are never made such an a statement nor put alumni association money into the defense of Owens. That does not rule out the fact that there may have been some underhanded dealings to support Owens in any way possible, however, I just don’t believe that to be the most likely course of events. And while there may be some truth to the fact that there is often a seperate standard for athletes, it is by no means a fact that they have there road paved with gold at the Academy. If anything, I would be willing to bet that a varsity football player at the Academy is one of the most challenging positions one could be in. Spend just one morning at “fourth quarters” and I think you will begin to to look at things just a bit differently. </p>
<p>Woah, that was a long post, but I think I covered everything…</p>