<p>SS, my son had a teacher in middle school that made the students rewrite or retype every homework question and then underline it neatly with a ruler in a different color. Then they were allowed to answer the homework question. My middle school son was so frustrated by this. We ended up changing it so that he did not need to rewrite and underline questions before answering them.</p>
<p>Northeast, this is exactly the type of pointless busy work tht turns boys off & has them searching for shortcuts wherever possible. It would be MUCH more valuable to insist the answers were phrased in a complete sentence, incorporating the original question. </p>
<p>Such silliness!</p>
<p>Oh lord, here we go again.</p>
<p>Yes, my D just adored pointless busywork. It defined her [/sarcasm].</p>
<p>SS, he did need to answer in complete sentences, BTW. We eventually had meeting at school, and we agreed to purchase his workbook. He was then allowed to write his answers directly into the workbook. At least the teacher was willing to listen and make changes for our son. This is not always possible. This kept all of these hw assignments together (in the workbook), and it really reduced his frustration. Her reasoning for writing and underlining each hw question is because that was how she learned, and she was an A student (just repeating what my son told me that she had said to her class)!</p>
<p>Williams has slightly more women than men, and accepts them at a slightly higher rate as well, definitely one of the more gender neutral schools in terms of admissions.</p>
<p>I think it’s definitely something to look at. Brown has tremendously more female applicants for example. The numbers are out there, check out the college navigator at the National Center for Educational Statistics. It’s not hard to find great schools where gender is not a major factor in admissions.</p>
<p>My kids are the opposite of gender stereotypes when it comes to the craft project type stuff. My daughters would much rather write a paper. My son would much rather get out of writing a paper. If that can be done by making a collage, bring on the glitter glue!</p>
<p>Garland, I’m no fan of busywork for either gender. But girls can be more tolerant of it simply because they have better fine motor skills and can complete it faster. It is often a pain for girls, but not absolutely torturous, as it is for boys. Particularly for one like my son, who was cross dominant & had to make the decision of which hand to write with each & every time he picked up a pen.</p>
<p>Williams male/female stuff varies. Now I think there are more males; more males choose to attend.</p>
<p>My D was not unartistic (word?) that when second grade papers were posted on open school night I almost cried. Everyone else (boys included) had made a beautiful cover, construction paper, colored pencils, nice drawing. D has ripped off a piece of computer paper, dot matrix in those days, holes intact, and scrawled something in pencil. I mentioned my mortification to the teacher; she lifted the cover sheet and showed me D’s A. The only one according to the teacher. She had concentrated on the content. Other kids had concentrated on the cover. That was the day I stopped worrying about D’s skills.</p>
<p>S had one Latin sub that graded them by grading the pictures they drew of famous Latin phrases (Like reach for the starts, in Latin of course.) I don’t think she actually knew Latin! S got an A, but the grading was incomprehensible. Some of the most creatively, completely executed pictures received worse grades than the beautifully done ones. Sigh. Ah, having to please others.</p>
<p>As an English teacher I do object to how much visual aides replace language in English classes. See, in English I do believe the word’s the thing. But not all agree.</p>
<p>Wow SS. We are making huge generalizations. The two best artists of both D’s year and S’s year were boys. My D fines all that torurous; well S does, too. H and I both like to draw, so go figure.</p>
<p>
I don’t think that many girls are, either, unless they’re in costuming classes (and then the boys in those classes do that too - anyone like Project Runway?).</p>
<p>Mythmom, my H is a wonderful artist and has a BArch. He is a talented painter & cartoonist, wonderful at sketching & pencil drawings. I hardly think anyone would interpret my post as implying males can’t be great artists. Ever been to an art museum, and noticed the predominance of male artists’ work hanging on the walls?</p>
<p>I’m talking about intellectual & physical & emotional development issues relating to gender. Boys & girls. Very different paths. Very different schedules.</p>
<p>“I’m talking about intellectual & physical & emotional development issues relating to gender. Boys & girls. Very different paths. Very different schedules.”</p>
<p>I think that’s so true. My son is in 4th grade and just last week took the English/Language Arts standardized test that will place him in middle school 20 months hence. He’s great at math, good at reading, but just not great at the kind of writing required on that test, and I understand from his teacher and from the school’s workshop that this is common among the boys. There are short and long answer essays and the boys at this age have real trouble with the embellishments and details that will allow them to fill a page or more with words to elaborate on what is essentially a one-sentence answer. Girls, for some reason, seem to do better with this and it bothes me greatly that the criteria is set so far in advance because I really do believe that boys can mature a lot in 20 months, with probably more improvement than girls who are already on the ball.</p>
<p>Zoos, your son’s experience is a good example of tracking done without regard to gender differences in that maturity schedule. I bet plenty of really sharp boys are kept out of accelerated programs because of short-sighted decisions like this.</p>
<p>Some random LAC data:</p>
<pre><code> Apply Admit (admit rate) Enroll
</code></pre>
<p>Williams (2011)</p>
<p>M: 3001 583 (19%) 282
F: 3477 611 (18%) 258</p>
<p>Amherst (2011)</p>
<p>M: 2956 535 (18%) 220
F: 3724 640 (17%) 254</p>
<p>Swarthmore (2011)</p>
<p>M: 2161 459 (21%) 175
F: 3081 471 (15%) 180</p>
<p>Haverford (2011)</p>
<p>M: 1494 399 (27%) 146
F: 1998 478 (24%) 169</p>
<p>Middlebury (2011)</p>
<p>M: 3005 736 (25%) 322
F: 4175 743 (18%) 322</p>
<p>Carleton (2010)</p>
<p>M: 1922 681 (35%) 232
F: 2528 724 (29%) 272</p>
<p>All this post-hoc rationalization for boys apparent lack of success because of the educational system being more geared towards girls is just plain nonsense. If boys don’t success it is claimed that is because they are “underachieving” and their brilliance just does not show through. Girls are characterized as the overachieving types who succeed because of hard work not because they are “smart”. </p>
<p>Girls are not taking all the honors because they are better at busy work or more “compliant”. They are just better students generally whether in high school, college or even beyond. They are often more motivated and simply work harder. They are highly competitive and realize that at least for college admission it is mostly a meritocracy. They know they need a high level of education to achieve economic independence and be successful in a tight job market. </p>
<p>In this or another thread, girls have been characterized as the “new Asians”. Nobody has claimed that Asian kids succeed in high school despite a lack of smarts. Culturally, Asians as well as many other immigrant groups view education as a means for economic success. So do many girls. Maybe if more parents unplugged their boys’ Playstations, things would be different. Don’t blame it on the system!</p>
<p>WesDad: You proved my point! Where’s Wesleyan?</p>
<p>StickerShock: Congratulations on having such a talented H. I’m jealous – love architecture. My experience is difference, that’s all. And I’m not a fan of sweeping gender generalizations. Sometimes I think we see what we want to see. But there’s is a lot of support for your position here. Yes, of course, art museums, I didn’t think I had to go there to prove my point, but until that sarcasm didn’t think we were dueling. Sorry if my post(s) offended; not my intention. I thought we were just exploring an issue.</p>
<p>My admiration for your architect H not sarcastic; totally sincere.</p>
<p>“Zoos, your son’s experience is a good example of tracking done without regard to gender differences in that maturity schedule. I bet plenty of really sharp boys are kept out of accelerated programs because of short-sighted decisions like this.”</p>
<p>That’s exactly what happens. Those classes (I have a girl in one in high school) are heavily female. There is even a special high school admission policy that awards preference based on the English component only, and ignores the math. I’ve seen this child mature so much in the last year (he’s also an end of year baby), and it makes me sad that his junior placement and likely high school placement as a result, will be made so early on. 20 months is a long time in the life of any child, isn’t it?</p>
<p>"Girls are not taking all the honors because they are better at busy work or more “compliant”. They are just better students generally whether in high school, college or even beyond. They are often more motivated and simply work harder. They are highly competitive and realize that at least for college admission it is mostly a meritocracy. They know they need a high level of education to achieve economic independence and be successful in a tight job market. "</p>
<p>Girls work DIFFERENTLY, not necessarily better. I have both and I can say with certainty that if both boys and girls end up at the same place of success, they took different paths to get there.</p>
<p>I always get frustrated reading these threads, because I never really understand what the rest of you are talking about. Both schools my kids attending – a small, snooty private, and a large public magnet – had virtually the same number of girls and boys (the public, which first admitted girls in 1984, was about 53% female). At both, at the high school level, girls and boys seemed to have about equal success. (At the public HS, the top 20 kids by class rank in each of their graduating classes was evenly split between boys and girls. Both classes had a male valedictorian and girls in the next two slots.) At both, the boys were a lot noisier about their abilities, and tended to have bigger reputations. In other words, a lot like the non-school world.</p>
<p>Did the girls rule in elementary and middle school? Academically, sure they did. Did the boys catch up, around 8th grade? Absolutely. </p>
<p>Was there a visual art (or “craft”) component to some assignments? Yes, although in high school it was very, very modest. Did my son suck at that? Absolutely. Did it do permanent damage to his sense of self-worth? Jeepers, I hope not! It’s frightening to think that his enormous self-regard could have been even more enormous. Did the same thing happen to me in elementary and middle school? Yep – and I still feel anxious every time I touch a tube of glue. In my middle school, which was all boys, we called it “shop”, and it was very manly. I still hated it. Boo-hoo. For some boys, it was the high point of their day.</p>
<p>Did my daughter enjoy that aspect of her school work, and do very well at it? Yes. Did it impair development of her analytic and verbal skills? Not that anyone could notice, that’s for sure. Did it keep her from falling prey to a modest case of Ophelia syndrome? Not really.</p>
<p>How about group projects? Sure, plenty of them. My son loved cooperating with others; my daughter tended to get frustrated and take them over.</p>
<p>Did both the “craft” elements and group work teach genuine, valuable, real-world skills. Yes. My daughter has taken advantage of her visual arts ability in several jobs, and gotten strokes (and raises!) for it, although in general she is an academic egghead. And have you looked at the applications for MBA programs recently? Those who cannot show a significant, verifiable track record of successful teamwork need not apply.</p>
<p>Is it still pretty much a man’s world? It has changed a lot since I was young, but, net, the answer is still yes. Things were NOT OK a generation ago, girls were shunted aside academically all the time. We do a better job educating girls now, and we do a better job communicating to boys that some of the areas where girls, on average, are better at age 12, are nonetheless valuable and worthy of respect. That’s all good.</p>
<p>Not that everything is hunky-dory. The gender gap among African-American and Hispanic children is frightening and demands a response. But craft projects in suburban middle schools are not responsible for the vast diversion of boys from minority communities into prison or violent death.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I completely agree. I was commenting on my middle class boys and what I see within their circle of fellow students.</p>
<p>I too dislike these threads on the whole. In my case, it’s largely because frequently you see political conservatives lining up on the side of “Boys are being treated badly as an artifact of feminism” and political liberals lining up on the side of “Aggression and competition have ruined our society so hooray for the feminized approach” - both of which are simplistic approaches IMO.</p>
<p>Here’s what my son said last night.</p>
<p>Mom: So, there aren’t any girls you are interested in this year, right? <em>pretending this is not a subject of interest in any way</em>
Son: I’m taking someone to the formal.
Mom: You are? Who? <em>disguising rampant enthusiasm</em>
Son: {name of girl Mom has never heard of}
Mom: <em>multiple questions about who this person is STILL trying to pretend Mom doesn’t care but failing</em>
Son: <em>Various answers</em>
Mom: So, um, she is happy to go with you?
Son: Yeah, this year I’m quite the catch
Mom: Haha. It’s good to be a senior boy.
Son: Well, we are all finally the same as the girls…</p>
<p>In other words, even the guys know they are three years behind the girls until senior year, at least.</p>
<p>Alumother, so lets say that boys are 3 years behind the girls in social skills, academic skills, fine motor (craft) skills, or whatever the skills are that you feel that they later bloomers in. If we do not let boys into college having had that lag, apparently many LACs (some without some of the male sought after sports to begin with) would be more imbalanced in terms of boys/girls. As I said, admissions is the great equalizer. I can name lots of young women who do not want to go to a college that is only 25% male.</p>