If I have to supposedly treat a biological male, who is transgender, like a female now, then biological females should welcome them into the sisterhood.
Personally, I think that transgenders should be able to go all in and if stronger and better equipped than biological females at certain things so be it. The true biological females should treat them equally and if they lose out on scholarships, sport teams spots and the like to stronger females (who were once male) then that is part of the deal. And the reverse as well, transgenders would need to compete at the level of biological males as well.
You do not get the gist of this thread then. People trying to dupe others and criminals do not lie. And for you not to trust what anyone says about his/her gender makes you a hater. Therefore, no need to ask, just take their word for it. Yes, I am being sarcastic.
Do you seriously think the risk of voyeurs ogling women in locker rooms is high enough to impose TSA-level security at gyms and public restrooms.
Also, plenty of places don’t have 24-7 “locker room attendants.” When I go to a university gym or a YMCA, you pass the front desk, and then go to the changing room, which is usually not within visual range of the person at the desk. Somehow, we get by.
I’ll also reiterate for the umpteenth time: in North Carolina, people who look like men are now legally required to use the ladies room. How is that making anyone safer?
Around the time Orange is the New Black first came out, I was discussing Laverne Cox with a friend. I mentioned that I didn’t actually know any trans people. She said “Yes you do – X is trans.” I had been going to the same synagogue as X for two years, and had no idea he had been born female (and no, I don’t know what surgeries he had or hadn’t had). He was a pretty big guy – I don’t think the women of North Carolina would be happy to see him in their bathrooms.
@TatinG - as someone posted way long ago, there is a spoof news article showing how you would have to do a rectal exam and see if there’s a prostate or not! Other parts can be changed, birth certificates can be changed, leaving the prostate gland as the last recourse of total paranoia!
Just as a reminder, people who are attracted to women have always been in women’s locker rooms, etc. Cis-women encounter other cis-women all the time in bathrooms that may be attracted to them. Not all cis-women are straight
But of course, the voyeur argument is just another straw man because there’s no actual data to pull from that says the lack of these laws put women in danger.
As a reminder, I was assaulted as a young teen by a cis-man in a unisex bathroom. The laws against assaulting kids didn’t stop him so you can bet these laws wouldn’t stop him either. In fact, him being in a women’s bathroom would’ve been a protective factor since there was more likely for other people to be around.
Currently, the answer is probably “yes” because the draft is determined by the sex as recorded on your birth certificate, not your stated gender the day you turn 18.
Just a day or two ago, at a local high school, girls walked into the girls locker room and found a nude male standing there. They screamed and ran out. Now obviously he was trespassing etc.
Change that to the spa at a resort in Palm Springs, say. Women walk into the women’s locker room and see a nude male standing there. They run out. Now what is the resort to do? What if the man says, sorry, I’m transgender and I just haven’t had the surgery yet. This is where I want to change and I want to use the women’s sauna, etc. How is the resort to determine whether to call the police about a peeping tom or not?
The vast majority of locker rooms also have bathrooms which have private stalls. So if you want privacy you can choose to change in a bathroom stall. And while I am sure there are still a few places that have open shower rooms, they are no longer the norm. Women’s locker rooms most often have shower stalls with curtains or doors.
I can’t imagine any trans woman showing her penis in a woman’s locker room. The ones I know keep their panties on or change in a curtained area or stall… plus, they would most likely be taped back and thus not visible, if you really want to get graphic.
And this “wait the 4 years until they can be certified” argument - who is gonna stand outside of a bathroom, view a tall woman with an adam’s apple (with some trans people the gender change is more obvious than others), and ask “has it been a full 4 years or do you need to wait a few months/days/whatever before you can pee in the women’s room?”). DON’T YOU CARE ABOUT THESE WOMEN IN TRUE DANGER OF BEING ATTACKED IN A MEN’S ROOM MORE THAN A SMALL CHANCE OF A LESBIAN TRANS WOMAN SEEING YOUR BARE BUTT?? A hetero trans woman won’t be interested in your bare butt. And transgender does not equal child abuser.
I’ve been called “sir” from time to time by people who see my plain face and short hair, especially if my DDD’s are covered by a bulky jacket. I can hardly wait til I’m accosted in or outside of a bathroom. You wanna see my private parts? I’ll show you my private parts - after three days of labor in a teaching hospital during change in residents’ rotations, who cares who sees me anymore?
If you are referring to my reference to IOC rules, it is not that the athlete has to “wait” for years. It’s that once they decide to compete as a trans, they must do so for at least 4 years to retain eligibility-- i.e. they must demonstrate a threshold level of commitment.
I don’t know if states have any waiting period to get your sex legally changed. I do know that some states require 30 days for a legal name change. You can’t just arbitrarily change your name and open a bank acct or even board an airplane.
TatinG, the story about fining people for using the wrong pronouns is B.S. promulgated by the hysterical right-wing media. The only fines are for repeated malicious refusal to use the correct pronouns for someone, amounting to harassment. And no, it’s utter nonsense to pretend that such harassment is protected by the First Amendment. Do you think a boss has a First Amendment right to harass a female employee whom he thinks is too masculine by calling her “Sir,” and referring to her as “he”? How about calling a gay employee a “f----t”? If I had a boss who somehow found out my history and started referring to me as “he” or calling me “Sir,” you can bet I’d pursue a claim against them. Whether you like it or not, discrimination against trans people is against the law in New York City, just like discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation, race, nationality, etc. And harassment = discrimination. Period.
And I would bet that the man in the story about the locker room or changing room referred to by awc etc. (the one where the guy presenting as male supposedly said he was representing himself as a woman that day) was one of the several anti-trans provocateurs, either working for religious right organizations or acting independently, who’ve been invading bathrooms and locker rooms recently to try to prove that there’s a “problem.” The alleged phrasing was way too close to the standard right-wing talking points to be a coincidence. In other words, the existence of a problem is supposedly proven by provocateurs deliberately creating problems in order to prove that a problem exists. Circular logic, much? And the reason they’re going to such lengths is that there never has been such a problem in any of the 200+ municipalities and 16 states where laws protecting trans people have been in effect, some for many years.
Also, for what seems like the 10th time in this thread, there’s no such thing as “a trans” or “a transgender.” They’re adjectives, not nouns.
And no, it’s not fun to argue when you’re part of the group (already one of the most discriminated-against groups in this country, with the highest unemployment rates) that’s now become the target of a relentless, and relentlessly dishonest, campaign of bigotry and discrimination by politicians who think they can get a few more votes by engaging in that campaign. It’s so not fun that I’m down to checking this thread once a day or so. I’m amazed I’m still able to engage that much. This is not an academic debate for trans people. It’s about our ability to survive in this world.
An example of malicious harassment in this thread: TatinG misused the word once. No problem. A certain other poster has done so repeatedly, and continues to do so despite being repeatedly told that “transgender” is not a noun. I’m sure he enjoys being rude, because he wrongly assumes that the people he targets will quiver and weep and run away because they feel “triggered.” His fantasy bears no relation to reality. I’ve never met a trans person who didn’t have far more real-life courage than 100 self-important pontificators.
