We went from a car to an SUV.
I hope you’ll consider a small to midsize car-based (crossover) SUV. I feel being up a little higher really improves driver visibility all around. It is also easier to load/unload items from the rear hatch vs a car’s trunk. Car seats slide straight in vs having to bend over in a smaller car. This was our experience.
Oh I am late to this party @oregon101 but quiet is on my list for the same reason, though it’s one of my kids who has hearing loss. The quietest car I ever had was an Audi A6 wagon (no longer made). The Audi Allroad wagon I have now is comparable in quietness, but the Audi A4 wagon I had in between had significantly more road noise (though I really liked that car). My mom’s A4 sedan, a newer model than the A4 wagon I had, is pretty quiet.
“She found lifting them into the car seats as 2 year olds was really difficult.”
Granted, I’m approaching this from the perspective that the vast majority of two year olds are ambulatory, so if that’s not the case here, her difficulties are understandable. But… if these 2 year olds walk like most two year olds do, why the heck is she regularly lifting them into car seats? Tell the little boogers to climb in there themselves. Done.
@milee30 she has to make sure they are buckled into these car seats properly which required climbing in and out of the SUV herself. She doesn’t have to do that with the BMW sedan. She just reaches in and deals with the buckling.
Also, she was sometimes moving the carseats from car to car…and found that not an easy thing either.
And sometimes early walkers…between ages 1-3 don’t just climb into their car seats. Maybe all of yours do, but some kids still need help.
Different strokes for different folks. If you like the SUV better that’s fine…I was just offering another perspective that someone might want to consider.
I really really want a trunk. I have had two wagons and one SUV. I keep SO much in my trunk (and use it).
Currently there is a sweater and a raincoat, pair of sandals, running shoes, socks, hiking Teva’s, ER backpack, 5 grocery bags and two small soft coolers. There will soon be Tire Socks, gloves and hat.
Nah Jong set, table pad and bag for card and $, And so much more.
The Hyundai Elantra has a huge trunk. I have it all organized and use most all of it within a two week period.
We leave nothing in the car itself. Too many break in’s around this city. Where to put all of your “things” in an SUV?
I was tempted as I do like being higher but decided the trunk makes me too happy to forgo. Also, I am short and really do not, even now, want to lift the infant carrier up into it’s base. To my dying day I will remember the afternoon I ran a zillion errands and lifted S, a total lightweight, into and out of the car seat 27 times. Even H remembers that day
as told to him.
Now that the AudiA4 is in the running I have not seen one in days. I am still put off by the premium gas but
Consumer Report rates it as reliable and quiet above all others–even the Mercedes and Lexus. I think we will
also drive a Mercedes. I saw a car and without knowing said"that is an ugly car/grill." It was a Lexus :(.
Iron Maiden, I am setting up a gmail account for cars buying and will sign up for Truer.com. Have used
Cars.com to buy the last two internet.
We have two Audi Dealers and the one 12 miles away has a 2018 with 2300 miles on it that I am interested
in–only white and only a great or tan interior.
I have a cover for the back in my Subaru Outback. My D has a cross trek and her trunk area is covered. The cover can come off. My Outback is a little higher than my Elantra but doesn’t feel like I have to lift up to get things in it. In fact it seems more even with my height. I think it’s easier to lift things out of my Outback than the Elantra, which is lower to the ground. I’m 5’1” btw.
Our story was complicated by our own indecision regarding a specific car. We originally believed several models would work for us, but wanted to know the relative price differences which could potentially sway our choice, The sticker price is virtually meaningless. Invoice price means little. Some manufacturers were giving substantial rebates (not always shared). Some dealers added options with huge mark ups. Some dealers extended the manufacturer warranties. So, while the negotiating was a bit premature, we wanted to know the full cost before deciding on a specific car.
We started our process hoping to do all our negotiating online. When we bought our last car 5 years ago, it worked great. This time it was very frustrating. First it was difficult to obtain a valid email address for the internet sales division, as few are listed online. Nearly all did not answer our questions. We chose a particular model, and listed color preferences .We outlined exactly where we would register the car (for tax & registration purposes), and asked for a total out-the-door itemized cost. They would only give us the supposed sales price, but would not outline all the other add-ons which varied considerably from dealer to dealer. We had to write back and forth several times to pull the information from them, by being persistent and explaining we would not (or could not) come into the showroom. I guess it was better than sitting in a showroom trying to do the same thing, but still very time consuming, and frustrating.
We tried Truecar, and was not impressed. Perhaps I used it incorrectly? I registered, selected the car we thought we wanted, and was bombarded by sales emails, asking me to come in for a test drive. The prices were no lower than other services (USAA, Costco). Truecar appeared to be yet another method of obtaining your contact information.
We tried Costco. You still have to go into a showroom. They only give you a contact. In the showroom, the salesperson outlined the supposed invoice cost, AND current rebates, and then showed how you received a substantial discount under invoice (for our model it ranged between $800 - $1200 below invoice (before rebates) – depending on the dealer?). Obviously the invoice cost does not have the same meaning as it once did. A few played the same game of letting you wait, then introducing you to the manager to try to close the sale. In one showroom, we were passed through 4 separate sales staff, even though we explained upfront that we would not be buying that day, but needed to know the final price before making our decision. One salesperson pushed that the Costco discount can change daily. Another said it changes based on demand, but typically monthly. They all said Costco was far better than USAA. One salesperson we connected via USAA advised that we NOT go through Costco, because dealers need to pay for that connection, and supposedly they could beat the Costco prices by not subscribing. Maybe that was just “sales talk” to again try to get us to their showroom. But after our encounters with the various membership programs, I came away not believing any of them were totally candid about the process.
At some point, while you’ll pay more for a broker services, it comes down to your time. If you like negotiating and researching, that’s fine. If not, then a service might be better.
Would love to hear stories & advice from successful negotiators.
Check out these car salesmen tactics; I think we’ve experienced every one of them!
https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/7-secret-tactics-that-car-salesmen-hope-you-dont-know/
“Would love to hear stories & advice from successful negotiators.”
Not sure I’d qualify as a successful negotiator (I don’t negotiate at all - accept or walk - it’s all very quick), but I am very successful at buying cars for the price I’d like. My husband is one of those unfailingly polite English people and would pay full sticker for any car to simply avoid discussing price; he is horrified by my method and will no longer go with me to buy cars. That said, he has me buy his cars because I get good prices.
- There are only two pieces of info I can’t know from online research. Other than those two pieces of info, I have fully researched every vehicle online and know that I’m choosing between 4-5 models and what options I want on each of those models. I don’t need to waste any time at the dealerships asking for info about the models; makes the dealership experience very brief.
- At the dealership, I just need to find out 1) do I like the physical experience of driving this car in the test drive and 2) will they sell it to me for $xx,xxx out the door. I already know what $xx,xxx is, I just need to know if their out the door price will fall under what I’ve already determined I will pay for that model with those options. So after the test drive, I tell the salesperson I will be willing to write a check for X and they have about 10 minutes to make that happen.
- You have to be willing to walk out because you will have to walk out 8 times out of 10 if you’re only offering rock bottom pricing, which I am. You also have to be willing to walk out if they start to delay or introduce you to other people. Once I had a salesperson chase me into the parking lot (I’d sat for 10 minutes waiting and then headed out since nobody had returned) to accept the offer. Once I walked away when there were additional fees that popped up in the paperwork process.
- Always do this on the last day or second to last day of the month. It also works better during the slower months for car sales, which are approx June - November.
- Be willing to drive up to get a deal. I bought my last Lexus SUV (one year old with 16,000 miles on it) for the same price the local dealers were selling three year old models with 50,000 miles on them. Yes, it was a 2.5 drive to the next metro area, but the approx $6k I saved was worth spending the afternoon on.
I should add, I’m always very polite in these transactions. The technique is hardball but I’m a nice person. There’s no rudeness, yelling or arguing just a simple statement (said politely and smilingly) of what I will pay.
They can take it or leave it but it’s not unpleasant and it’s the easiest deal they’ve ever had because it’s simple and binary.
No = I thank them for their time and allow them to serve the next customer.
Yes = I pull out my checkbook and write a check for the exact amount we’ve just agreed to.
"Our story was complicated by our own indecision regarding a specific car. "
This is actually helpful in getting the best deal. If you’re in love with a particular car, you’re likely to pay a lot more. If you’re in love with one particular color, you’re likely to pay a lot more.
If you are open to 2-3 different models and open to a few colors (for example, I live where it’s hot, so for color I generally want a “light” color like white, silver, champagne, etc.) and have done your homework, my system of knowing in advance what the rock bottom price you’ll pay and being willing to walk out will get you a good deal. If you’re in love with one car in one color, that complicates things since you’re at the mercy of one or two dealers.
Oh, and it also helps to have time. If you absolutely have to buy a car in a weekend, you’ll pay a lot more. My method generally takes me 1-2 months from the time I get serious until someone says “yes.” Once, I got lucky and got the appropriate screaming deal at the second dealership I went to and once it took almost three months, but you have to be OK with waiting.
@milee30 , So what do you use to determine the cost before going to a showroom? We can figure approx. taxes and registration fees. However, we found vastly different numbers using KBB, Cargurus.com, NADA, and Edmonds as guides. Sometimes they listed current Mfr. rebates in the analysis (Toyota, for example, recently had one for $2500); sometimes not.
One of the best ways to see the deals people are getting is to find the forum for the specific make/model you are interested in. There is usually a “prices paid” thread.
Combination approach. I take all the available data - including what you listed and adding TrueCar, reviewing listings for the past 6-9 months, etc. and then discount it by 5% - 10%, depending on what I think is going on in the market and with the car dealers. For example right now, dealers have some extra new car inventory because they stocked up based on the rumors of tariffs, it’s also a slow time of the year for car sales so that would play into how much I’d offer. Conversely, I wouldn’t want this to drag on too long because then the dealers will have worked through their pre-tariff inventory and be buying new inventory at higher prices, plus January begins higher volume sales season and higher prices so that might mean I’d be willing to offer slightly more to make sure at least one of them made me a deal before that happens.
Oh, I also like to look at how long each of the cars I’m considering has been sitting on the lot. Dealers finance their inventory and that financing is expensive. The longer a car has been sitting there, the lower price I offer. You can even find out what some of the dealers’ wholesale policy is; many will keep a car for x days before they wholesale it; If you make an offer the week before their deadline to wholesale you can buy it for just over the wholesale amount. Huge discount.
In the future if gas prices start to spike, that’s a great time to get deals on vehicles with relatively low MPG. For those of us who need something that tows (meaning we’ll always have to have something with relatively low MPG no matter what) and who drive few miles, the amount we save in purchase price during those times more than makes up for the higher gas prices.
In other words, look at the environment and run the numbers. Don’t buy on emotion.
(Although my husband and I are both nerds, he’s an EE nerd and I’m of the CPA tribe. He loves to tease me about this process down to the fact that I’ll have Excel spreadsheets and maybe even a graph or two, but he is also in awe of the pricing I get.)
Thanks Milee30… can I hire you? '-)
I’m with @milee30. I’m the price negotiator in the family. I do lots of research in like cars and sale prices. I go in with MY top price, and am prepared to walk if they don’t meet my price.
I never shop for a car when desperate…
Funny story…my first Volvo was an S70…I loved that car. We went to the dealer, and the car I wanted…3 years old, just off lease, 35,000 miles was in the auction line because the body style had changed…and they wanted the car gone. I asked to drive it…after all…I had driven over 30 minutes to get to this dealer having seen the car online for $25,000. (It was a 2000). Well…they claimed they couldn’t take my old car as a trade, and the lowest price the could give me was $24,000.
My price was $20,000…out the door. I mean really…they were NOT going to get that much from th auction folks. Well…they claimed they couldn’t go that low…so we left…and drove home. By the time we arrived at our house…30 minutes later…there was already a message on our answering machine…”we think we can meet your price”.
I called them back…and politely said…$20,000 and not a penny more…and you have to take our old car. And I also told them that if they didn’t make good on the call…I’d tell everyone I knew.
We went back and got the car for $19,999 out the door.
I did something similar with a car for my husband. I decided it was worth $15,000 (this was in the 80’s sometime). I went and got a bank check for $15,000…and was prepared to buy the car. They said $18,000 was the lowest thy could take. Ok…bye bye. They followed me out the door and agreed to my $15,000 price.
How do you know how long a car has been on the lot? Is the delivery date on the window sticker?
I read the edmunds forums to get. the idea of prices paid. It helped DS, many years ago, save about 20% on the first car he purchased. I also look at the cost to maintain (repairs, insure, resale value) to really compare what a car will cost.
Well, that all went out the window with the purchase of the Tesla 
Try the Mazda CX-5. I am a car guy and multiple sources say it is Lexus level quiet.Yes, it was a big surprise to everyone, but Mazda spent a lot of effort on that.
The Audi A4 and Q5 are also very quiet, and I have driven both of these.
“How do you know how long a car has been on the lot?”
If it’s a used car - and that’s all I buy, 1-3 year old - you can tell from when it was listed on various sites. For example, in our area all the dealers list on autotrader.com. Embedded in the listing is the # of days on the lot.
It’s different with domestic manufacturers, but with BMW and MB it’s pretty straightforward. I’ve bought our last 4-5 cars basically over the phone/email. People on the specific car enthusiast forums will share what they’re paying, which is typically something along the lines of “$500 over invoice” (varies up and down, obviously). Then I just spec out exactly what I want, contact a dealer, and after a couple rounds of phone negotiation the price is locked in. It’s always pretty quick and painless; I think they recognize buyers like me (i.e. well-informed via the brand-specific car forums) and just want to close the quick sale even though it’s a slim profit.
Usually it’s best to let them “bump” you up a little bit at least once, as the car salesman’s manual says customers who get their first offer feel like they overpaid and tend to cancel. Give them the one bump so they’re willing to close, then usually you’re good to go.
I do have one funny story - back in 2002 I found exactly the car I wanted, which from an internet search appeared to have been sitting on a dealer’s lot for a couple months. I wasn’t in urgent need of a car, so I reached out to their internet sales guy and said, “If you want to sell me that car for this price, I’ll take it. Otherwise never mind.” He countered about 1k higher, but I repeated my exact same script. He kept coming down, and I kept repeating the exact same line. This was all over email, thankfully. Anyway a few weeks later, finally some manager at the dealership called and caved (asked for the $100 bump to close, actually, which I gave them). The funny part is that I totally meant what I said and I had no emotion invested in it - if they wanted to sell me that car for that specific price, I’d take it. Otherwise nvm! Kept that car for 12+ years and 130k miles and totally miss it even today.