Need college advice with FR for medical career [US citizen outside the US, 226 PSAT, 1510 SAT, rank 1, <$7k]

College Search & Lists
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@thumper1

Apologies for missing out on your question of why she wants to be a doctor.

I really don’t have an answer for this question. But to say it is her only desire. I know this might be stupid answer for the interview panel. But for me, this is more than a good, enough answer. Because when I compare myself to her at her current age. I was clueless about what I want to do in the future. At least she has taken a decision on her own and decided to go for it. And I believe I need to try my best to make her successful.

I am a firm believer that if you go for a star you may not reach for it but you might catch a moon in the process.

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How does she know she wants to be a doctor in the U.S.

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Here in my country after sophomore year you need to choose one stream of subject which you want to pursue.

First stream is Physics, Chemistry and Math
Second stream is Physics, Chemistry and Biology
Third stream is Math with commerce

She chose the second stream as she wanted to become Doctor. Since she is a foreign student in this country. She is not qualified for any grants over here. Therefore we want to explore options becoming doctor in US

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I fully understand what you are doing for your daughter. What I do NOT understand is why she thinks she wants to be a doctor in the U.S. as it appears she has had very little if any discussions with actual doctors in the U.S.

But look for affordability as well as schools with a variety of majors. That way, she can do some shadowing (which will be expected as a med school applicant), some significant volunteer work with underserved populations, and some kind of direct facing patient experience. She will need all of these as well as solid GPA, sGPA, and MCAT scores for a possible medical school application.

Good luck to her!

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But you do have to plan for being able to catch the moon. Lots of biology major premeds do not get into medical school and end up competing with each other for the limited supply of biology related jobs (pay level is on the lower side compared to other majors).

Note that while biology is a convenient major for premeds due to course overlap with premed courses, no specific major is required. About half of medical school applicants and matriculants had some other undergraduate major.

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Most US pre-meds major in biology since, as @ucbalumnus says, it has the greatest overlap w/ med school admission requirements.

However, the post-graduation job prospects for BA/BA bio degrees are not terribly good. There are so very many pre-meds who end up not getting into med school. Every pre-med is advised to have a Plan B career in mind during undergrad. This may include majoring in something other than biology. (Both my daughters majored in math because math gave them much better employment opportunities if they did not get into med school.)

Also, you and your daughter need to understand that just wanting to be a doctor isn’t enough. Lots of high schoolers want to be a doctor. However, only about 23,000/year actually make it into med school. Only about 15% of freshmen pre-meds actually complete all the required pre-reqs classes. Even fewer complete the classes with grades high enough to get considered for med school. Of those who finish the pre-reqs with top grades AND apply to med school, only 35-40% actually get accepted.

As you can see, in the US med school admission is extremely competitive. It is also not solely based upon academics–although the first cut is made on academic achievements (MCAT plus GPA and sGPA). Many additional factors go into selecting those who are admitted. Substantial physician shadowing, community service with disadvantaged groups away from campus, clinical exposure to medicine through volunteer or paid experiences, leadership roles in their activities, and hands on lab or clinical research experience are required. Mission-fit with the specific med school is also a major consideration. (Med schools have different missions–it’s why every med school has a mission statement on their website.)

Because you/your daughter do not have a legal state of residence in the US, it will be somewhat more difficult for your daughter to get a med school acceptance. Most successful med school applicants attend a public med school in their home state. (Home state public med schools are also a student’s most cost effective option for med school.) Most public med schools heavily favor in-state applicants and restrict the number of OOS applicants they interview and accept.

Also be aware that med school will probably cost around $100,000/year by the time your daughter is ready to apply. There are very, very few scholarships to pay for a medical education. You daughter will be eligible to borrow some of the cost of med school through federal student loans (up to $40K/year).

I would remove the whole idea of pre-med from your daughter’s college search. Pre-med academics is a discrete set of classes that are offered at every US college (with the exception of art/music conservatories) and at most community colleges.

Help her find a college where she can attend that offers the best combination of fit, cost and opportunities (including the opportunity to pivot away from medicine toward another career).

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Please heed the cost posts here about medical schools. There is no doubt that the cost of many medical schools will be $100,000 a year all in. That’s a huge chunk of money.

If your daughter doesn’t have a credit history here, she probably can’t get a Grad Plus Loan. @WayOutWestMom should this student get a U.S. based student credit card as soon as she enrolls in undergrad school? Will that be sufficient to create a credit history here.

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Not “will be”. Private medical schools in the US can already be over $100k per year. For example:

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To become an instate applicant to a state’s med school’s, wouldn’t OP just need to work in that state till age 24, at which point she wouldn’t be considered in relation to her parents’ residence.
@collegehelp4 : do you know your SAI/EFC and can you afford it (most can’t)?

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State residency rules for public medical schools can vary, so each state’s rules need to be checked.

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Yes, sometimes graduates from a state’s college are considered as “instate” for med school.

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In some states, you cannot use the years you are in college as an OOS student to count towards instate residency for tuition purposes. You need to adhere to the residency requirement prior to starting the professional or grad program.

ETA…when the OOS student is applying, they would not have instate status if applying during their college junior year to start the fall after undergrad graduations.

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Yes that’s why I mentioned that the simplest way to establish residency was to work in a state after college and till (at least) age 24.
(In my opinion this also helps in deciding on a major leading to a Plan B.)
In most states that’s enough. In a few rare states, graduating from college in a state “counts” for the med school.
(I know that Ole Miss only interviews Mississippi residents but not sure how they define it.)
In any case, most states have an oversupply of qualified instate applicants.

Another peculiarity of the US system is that you can become a physician through two types of physician-training schools : MD and DO schools! :raised_hands:

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Which have become more alike than different…

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I don’t think we have put this forum list&discussion down yet (apologies if I missed it)

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Not only do medical schools residency rules vary from state to state, they vary from
SCHOOL to SCHOOL within the same state.

sometimes graduates from a state’s college are considered as “instate” for med school.

Seldom are they considered in-state for med school tuition and admission purposes; however, some states do give “special consideration” to graduates from the in-state public universities. Those students will still pay the OOS tuition rate for med school.

Some med schools will allow OOS med students to become in-state residents after 1-3 years of med school. But that’s not universal.

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College graduates are consider independent of their parents’ legal state residency so long the grad has taken steps to establish their own independent residency status in their new location–getting a driver’s license, registering to vote, establishing a domicile (this requires supporting documentation such a lease in their name and utility bills in their name), and filing state taxes as an independent for the year prior to applying for med school.

They don’t need to be 24. They only need to prove they are 100% self-supporting and financially independent of their parents.

When an individual applies to med school, they can list any state of residency they want. AMCAS doesn’t verify residency. It’s up to each individual med school to verify an applicant’s residency status. This is mostly accomplished by screening questions asked during the secondary application process. Applicants are asked for current and permanent mailing addresses. The name and location of the high school they graduated from. (Admission offices will call high schools to verify this.) What state’s driver’s license they hold. etc. There will be one additional round of residency verification after admission but before an applicant matriculates to determine if they qualify for in-state tuition rates. This round requires presenting legal documentation of where they live.

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So, to be clear: this student would need to get a state ID or state driver’s license and be registered to vote there (optimally as soon as possible after starting college) then after college have the rental contract/lease in her name (no off the book sublets) as well as valid employment&pay stubs.

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Yes…and for the required amount of time that school states is required for establishing residency for instate tuition status. This kid could register to vote, get a drivers license, and even get a lease in their name, but if they don’t meet the time line…typically one year of independent residency (not while being an undergrad) they might not be eligible for instate status.

Note…there is a difference between establishing residency in a state (drivers license, mail, utility bills, etc) and establishing residency for instate tuition status. The latter is harder to do and takes the right amount of additional time.

E.g sample of one. My kid attended college in CA. Kid actually had a lease for lodging in her own name, no guarantor, for two years before graduation. Even with that, she could have been a resident of CA to vote, and get a drivers license, but she would have needed to satisfy CA college residency requirements to get instate tuition for grad school. And I think it was two years at the time…post undergrad.

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My daughter is in an OOS graduate school program. She was told by the program that once she changes her license she needs one year to qualify for OOS tuition (grad school only).

This seems to vary by state/program.

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