Need Help Choosing Engineering Schools.

I really don’t want to have this debate again, but this really isn’t why those schools have implemented a pre-engineering program and it’s misleading to insist so. They aren’t trying to cut good students from their programs. There are several very laudable goals that are generally behind those policies.

First, many incoming engineering students pick a major based on very incomplete information (as should be obvious from reading these boards) and the rate of students switching majors even within engineering is high. This is particularly problematic at large schools where departments are generally at capacity, so students end up dropping because their desired engineering major is full and they don’t like their current major. Therefore, by putting them through a pre-engineering program, they can make a more informed decision about their major and be less likely to drop out or fail out. In that sense, a pre-engineering will actually help increase retention.

Second, especially at the state schools that tend to have these programs, there are a sizable portion of the students who have insufficient or barely sufficient high school preparation for the rigors of the engineering course load. Many of these students are the ones who get slapped in the face by the early classes and end up struggling. Either they fail courses and ultimately drop out, or they barely pass courses and then really just scrape by for the rest of their time in the program as they remain perpetually behind the curve due to the poor start. This isn’t good for the students or the university. The pre-engineering programs don’t help with the students who are so poorly prepared that they fail out rapidly anyway, generally speaking, but they can sometimes help with students who would otherwise be scraping by. If they get a C in calculus, which is passing but far from mastery, they may end up retaking it to get their GPA up for admission to their major, which would hopefully improve their understanding before starting core upper division courses. This is at worst neutral when it comes to attrition.

It does mean some of these more marginal students may end up on the 5 year plan, but one extra year of tuition is still better than wasting 3 years of tuition before realizing your are hopelessly lost and dropping.

Of course, the bad side is that it increases the stress level specifically related to having to re-compete to get into your specific major. Also, there is of course no guarantee that a student will get into their first choice of major, either (though I believe most of those schools at least claim they have a pretty good track record there). Still, at worst those programs are neutral to attrition rate and, really, ought to actually improve retention. Most of the people who are “weeded out” by they would have been anyway, and some will end up staying that might have otherwise dropped.

I really think it’s overly cynical and disingenuous to say that those schools implement those programs as a means of weeding students out. That is not the case.

The AAU is more like a seal of quality earned by research institutions. They are only for PhD-granting institutions and are a sign of the level of research being performed at the school. Generally, the schools that are members don’t have a lot of tangible benefits other than perhaps more say in how the organization lobbies, but the distinction is highly-sought by non-member schools. It is really more of an indirect benefit to students due to what it signifies.

Large has good and bad connotations. The good aspect is that large means large revenues for the school (usually) which often means more money (and simply more students) for updated labs and clubs and such. It also means that, if you want one-on-one time with professors, you will have to actively seek it out rather than just sort of have that nearly by default at a small school.

There is probably some correlation there, but you’d be surprised how many people with a 35 struggle at first. A lot of the kids on the high end have never had to work for anything in high school and never developed any study habits to speak of, so they get hit hard at first when they can’t just breeze through college classes.