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<p>so what job r u going to get?</p>
<p>If you’re doing computer science, please do not listen to bearcats. You might succeed in college doing that (though a 3.7 with cheating isn’t really succeeding, IMO), but contrary to what he says, if you have no prior experience with computer science, you will need what you learn in college when working in the real world (if you are already good enough in computer science to know everything taught in college, why are you wasting your money?). As an example, take EECS 381 - very applicable to real-world work (though it is understandably different). Higher level courses also assume you remember what you learned early in your undergraduate career; forgetting everything after an exam only creates more work later.</p>
<p>I really, really hope I have a REAL engineering class with you in the future, bearcats. I’d have a lot of fun with you! Edit: Damn, you don’t go to classes…much less take real ones…oops.</p>
<p>Edit: Hah, why did I miss this earlier? Of course, if you take “cupcake” classes like bearcats does, most of what you “learn” won’t be applicable in the “real world.” Poor logic there.</p>
<p>“love the sound of jealousy…blah blah blah” - bearcats</p>
<p>Jealous of what, your lack of real knowledge? Your lower GPA? Your willingness to cheat? Poor logic? Dunno.</p>
<p>Great job responding to my points!</p>
<p>“your lack of real knowledge?”
sure… say whatever you want</p>
<p>"Your lower GPA? "
I am sure you have a 6.8</p>
<p>“Your willingness to cheat?”
Playing the system =/= cheating</p>
<p>“Poor logic?”
or your lack of reading comprehension skills…</p>
<p>"Great job responding to my points! "
Even though I have a lot more free time than you will ever have, I only spend my time on real points… wake me up when you have some</p>
<p>lol, bearcats are you a IOE major? You just offered some really terrible advice, it might work for IOE tho. </p>
<p>to whoever sent me the PM, i was Mech E., doing operations consulting, not really liking it, i don’t make a lot.</p>
<p>terrible for the average student…of course… most average students need information repeated over and over to actually be able to absorb them </p>
<p>by making my suggestions I actually assumed that the OP is smarter than the average U of M COE student, which he claimed he is.</p>
<p>"it might work for IOE tho. "
It also worked for the 2 ME classes, 1 Chem E class, all econ and other LSA classes that I took to fulfill requirements</p>
<p>different people succeed different ways, just because you cant pull it off doesnt mean other people cant</p>
<p>"doing operations consulting, not really liking it, i don’t make a lot. "
Well then ace the GMAT, write some kick ass essays and get into M7 and leverage your ops consulting experience to get into M/B/B or other strat consulting shop where the interesting work, money and prestige is</p>
<p>question for you kb10: How much ME knowledge from your MechEng classes are you using in your daily ops consulting job?</p>
<p>we’re all very impressed that you can game the system, you do say somethings that make sense, such as that many students don’t prepare enough for the exams, and spend ridiculous amount of time on homeworks, when homeworks are usually only 10-15% of their grades. And most people do forget what they learned like two days after the end of the semester. </p>
<p>but some of your habits are very bad:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>cramming in the way you just described sounds like a terrible way of life, and very not healthy, what if you have other exams?</p></li>
<li><p>unnecessary homework? you can’t skip material, in all of my intro ME classes, the exams cover every major topic, there’s no such thing as unnecessary, the homework gives you practice for real exams, those 2 homeworks you skipped will show up on the exam. </p></li>
<li><p>classes are not pointless. some are, when the prof goes through powerpoints, but even in those cases, you need to have friends in the class update you on any announcements.</p></li>
<li><p>Regrades: this is true, a lot of people don’t do it.</p></li>
<li><p>cupcake classes: also true. i’d be careful of the 100 level classes tho.</p></li>
</ol>
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<p>This was exactly my thinking when i was in college. At the lower levels, Consulting doesn’t pay as well as you think, for the hours you work. At least, in banking, you get paid well. You only start to make a lot as you start to get business development roles and do well at that. </p>
<p>Interesting work, is a relative term. Prestige is overrated. I do plan on going to business school in the next few years, I just haven’t figured out what I should be doing after MBA. </p>
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<p>zero. nada.</p>
<p>I’m only going by what I know, based on my major.</p>
<p>@bearcats,
Your claim that what we learn in school doesn’t really have anything to do with the real world really depends on your classes and your career path. Obviously, if you keep taking easy/bs classes, you probably won’t use any knowledge you gain. That’s why it’s important to choose your classes carefully in Michigan. There are some great teachers here (and some really awful ones).</p>
<p>But how do you even know what happens in the “real world?” It sounds like you’re still in school. I think that phrase - the real world - is overused, and is highly dependent on the person.</p>
<p>Besides, you keep claiming you have a ton of free time and do less work than everyone else does…but from what you described, you “study” and stress a lot more than I do for poorer results. Maybe you should re-evaluate?</p>
<p>Another thing: are you really basing your results off of classes taken for requirements? …Again, poor logic. Of course your method works for easy classes! Do you think you’re some kind of genius for figuring out what so many college students have done before you (cram)? I guarantee you you wouldn’t be able to complete a 381 project in one night; if you can, I’ll shut up.</p>
<p>Anyway, here’s something for new students that I’ve noticed: if you enjoy your major, then study for the relevant classes during vacation. Teachers release a required textbook list pretty early, and depending on your major, some of them might be good (most of them are pretty awful; it’s better to find a good book on amazon to learn from). It really makes the following semester much, much easier (and saves a lot of time).</p>
<p>Edit: About useless classes…most of my teachers don’t regurgitate the textbook. One of them doesn’t use powerpoints either; the others barely use them. We’re required to read the textbooks by ourselves, while the teacher supplements them. Skip classes at your own risk, new students. Again, this depends on the major and the level of the classes. I skipped every class in Econ 102 and Anthro 101 and still got As (though they were introductory courses; I don’t know about higher level ones).</p>
<p>“Obviously, if you keep taking easy/bs classes, you probably won’t use any knowledge you gain.”</p>
<p>Such insightful statement. Find me classes that actually teach you how to become a successful trader then. I’d be forever grateful. Until then, for my purposes, all classes are pointless the way it is. Also, thanks for trying to twist the intent of my statement. Let me clarify. Take fluff/easy classes for your free electives, humanities, social science credit. No point giving yourself extra work.</p>
<p>“how do you even know what happens in the “real world?” It sounds like you’re still in school. I think that phrase - the real world - is overused, and is highly dependent on the person”
Maybe you can start talking to people in your industry when you ever get an internship. Every trader except for the quants at the structuring desk would tell you that nothing you learn in school actually ever apply.</p>
<p>“Another thing: are you really basing your results off of classes taken for requirements? …Again, poor logic. Of course your method works for easy classes!”
Thanks for putting words in my mouth. When did I say I based my results off of classes taken for requirements? I based my results off all classes I have taken… IOE, Mech E, Chem E, Ross classes and the rest of the LSA classes.</p>
<p>“from what you described, you “study” and stress a lot more than I do for poorer results. Maybe you should re-evaluate?”
Sure, the day before exams. I’d rather be extremely stressed and busy for one night in a week than moderately stressed for the entire week.</p>
<p>Hey bearcats, do you have any strategies for excelling in chemistry 130/125? and mathematics at Michigan (Statistics, Calc, etc.) . I didn’t deserve to get into Michigan, but since I’m at Michigan now I am working very hard to get good grades and stuff. Sometimes studying 7 hours daily just to be on top of the material, but unlike most students, I’m not necessarily smart. What I’m trying to ask is, what is the best way to do well in classes that sometimes require intelligence and work ethic? People say chemistry is easy, but it isn’t for me.</p>
<p>Bearcats, any advice for a class that you really CAN’T CRAM FOR AT ALL LOL? (aka math…)</p>
<p>Entertainer: I never took gen chem at U of M. I had AP credits for all my sciences classes. In that case, go to office hours. Don’t the sweetland learning center have tutoring sessions or something like that too? And don’t say you don’t deserve to get into Michigan. Everyone’s accepted for a reason.</p>
<p>strife15: For math, don’t you have weekly homework that are graded? Those are your exam prep.</p>
<p>“If you’re doing computer science, please do not listen to bearcats. You might succeed in college doing that (though a 3.7 with cheating isn’t really succeeding, IMO), but contrary to what he says, if you have no prior experience with computer science, you will need what you learn in college when working in the real world (if you are already good enough in computer science to know everything taught in college, why are you wasting your money?)”</p>
<p>Forgot one thing, I was offered a proprietary trading programmer intern position by DE Shaw last year. Never taken a CS class before. The three guys who interviewed me had a Phd in genetics and a Phd in physics, and a computer engineering degree respectively. Maybe DE Shaw didn’t get the memo that you NEED to learn the CS stuff in school to do cutting edge computer science related stuff.</p>
<p>Lol.</p>
<p>There are tons of bad programmers out there. Having a job != being good.</p>
<p>Besides, I did not say you need to learn programming in college. But if you don’t know programming already, you need to learn it from somewhere; Michigan has some good programming courses, so what’s the point in blowing them off? You’ll have to learn that stuff eventually. If you’re already in college for computer science, then you’re probably there to learn computer science. One of my professors had a Ph. D in Psychology; he’s extremely good at CS.</p>
<p>“Never taken a CS class before”</p>
<p>Ok, then I guess you have no basis for saying whatever we learn in class has nothing to do with the real world – because you don’t even know what we learn in class.</p>
<p>Your points are probably true if you want to be a trader; I’m saying they’re not true for quite a few majors, so new students should be wary of following your advice.</p>
<p>P.S. I’d rather not be stressed at all than be extremely stressed for one day.</p>
<p>The problem with your advice comes from overgeneralizing; while it may be true for you and your major/career path, it is not true for every major. Some majors actually do prepare you for the “real world.”</p>
<p>“There are tons of bad programmers out there. Having a job != being good.”</p>
<p>You really think DE shaw would hire someone who they expect to turn out to be a bad programmer? You do know that DE Shaw is the leading technology focused hedge fund with $40Billion AUM and notorious for their ridiculously hard hiring practice right? (At least on par if not harder than google)</p>
<p>"
“Never taken a CS class before”
Ok, then I guess you have no basis for saying whatever we learn in class has nothing to do with the real world – because you don’t even know what we learn in class."</p>
<p>Or maybe you could look at it as the fact that I have never taken a CS class ever and gotten a trading programmer internship at one of the most competitive technology focused hedge fund as proof of how little you learn in school actually matter, even in computer science. </p>
<p>They’d rather toss a lot of really hard brainteasers and olympiad math problems at you and know that you are genuinely smart, train you, than to have an ordinary hardworking CS major with limited upside.
The interviewers also noted that they learned everything technology related on the job. The only thing they actually took from school was their quantitative ability.</p>
<p>“Your points are probably true if you want to be a trader; I’m saying they’re not true for quite a few majors, so new students should be wary of following your advice.”</p>
<p>Pretty sure I noted that my advice is not for everyone.</p>
<p>Or maybe I could listen to my father, several of my professors and many of my friends, all of whom are very successful computer scientists, rather than some average guy who thinks his average accomplishments are somehow above average?</p>
<p>Obviously if they didn’t major in Computer Science in college, they learned everything technology related on the job…your comments are somewhat misleading.</p>
<p>It also really depends on the classes you choose; two computer science majors can learn very different things.</p>
<p>Again, I didn’t say you have to learn CS in school. You can learn it elsewhere, and depending on the person, it won’t make a difference. But if you ARE in school for computer science, you shouldn’t blow off your classes; not only are you wasting money, you’re just creating more work for yourself later on. That’s my point. And that is what this advice is about: for people who ARE in school for a particular major.</p>
<p>“They’d rather toss a lot of really hard brainteasers and olympiad math problems at you and know that you are genuinely smart, train you, than to have an ordinary hardworking CS major with limited upside.”</p>
<p>Lol? Why do you keep making this comparison? Do you think it’s not common for someone with talent to also work hard? I’d rather hire someone who learned what he could during school rather than someone who made the ignorant generalization of “Everything I will learn in school won’t matter.”</p>
<p>Bearcats’s techniques are very questionable in my mind, if that works for him, by all means he should keep at it. </p>
<p>For all other students, go to class, do homework, study for exams at least a couple days beforehand, and succeed that way.</p>
<p>“Or maybe I could listen to my father, several of my professors and many of my friends, all of whom are very successful computer scientists, rather than some average guy who thinks his average accomplishments are somehow above average?”</p>
<p>Maybe we have a different definition of “successful”. I consider getting into a prestigious, exclusive company that hires 1 out of every 500 PhD applicant a lot more successful than being an ordinary professor or a programming manager at some generic company. Obviously we could have a different view on the word success. </p>
<p>“I’d rather hire someone who learned what he could during school rather than someone who made the ignorant generalization of “Everything I will learn in school won’t matter.””</p>
<p>Ever thought that it might actually be the case for some people and your ignorant generalization that “what I learn in school will help me in my job and so I should not blow off my classes” might not apply in all situations (at least for me).</p>
<p>you talk a big game for someone who’s still in college and all you got was a little summer internship. </p>
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