need help getting my mojo on

Colleges & Universities University of Michigan
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<p>Lots of good advice here. I have one small aspect to add that you can take or leave.
You may not have developed the habits of ‘mental organization’ and internal motivation, and you sound like you might suffer a little bit of an energy issue. I was once (a very very long time ago) a gifted kid with similar issues. So, here’s what has helped me (and truthfully, what I still need to reinvent myself daily : ) :

  1. Take sublingual vitamin B complex, helps with mental energy, regulation, organization, sense of mental health especially in fall/winter. Flax oil is another good one, especially considering nutrient-deprived dorm food.
  2. Work out (physically, maximum strength resistence) 20 - 30 min in a.m. before class (releases endorphins, energizes, gives brain a rest, takes you to peak performance mode)
  3. Write out your list each day (what to do/achieve, map it). Compare notes at end of day.
  4. Periodically let your mind go blank or meditate and “see” yourself finishing the work with a high level of proficiency. </p>

<p>These things aren’t directly related to the work it takes. They’re more the way to do the work in the most efficient or optimal environment so that you can be effective and ultimately have more time to chill in order to achieve balance. – In essence, priming the pump. Trust me, it helps. And trust you – you’ll find your way.
Cheers,
K</p>

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<p>Did they check if you have ever done any programming before in your free time?</p>

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<p>Exactly how much do you study per week on average?</p>

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<p>How’d I miss this thread?</p>

<p>Well, one question, is IOE really so easy that you don’t have to really try at all except for cramming right before the test? While bearcats seems to offer advice which is the opposite of what a teacher might typically offer, and that almost anyone would disregard, kb10 decided that it’s would work just fine for someone in IOE. Or does that only work because bearcats is a genius?</p>

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<p>^I wanted to edit that one, but too late…</p>

<p>Anyway, are IOE classes not graded on a curve, so that there are classes where a third of the people get As? Or are the curves more generous than other majors? Or what? What makes it easier than other majors?</p>

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<p>I think it’s because it became a really popular major in the last few years. The GPA min. helps limit the size of the program.</p>

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<p>bearcats is an idiot. first i have to say, to anyone who doesn’t know and is willing to listen to his advice, IOE is often known as I(nstead) O(f) E(ngineering) by real engineering students at the umich CoE. The classes are a joke, and if you have a 3.7 in that program, you are not impressing anybody. Real engineering requires a lot of work and is very applicable. in terms of real engineering disciplines, they have a word for people who dont use their technical knowledge in the real world- mediocre. if you are mediocre, it is better to prevent you from unleashing your stupidity on the world and probably hurting a lot of people in the process. those who are actually talented in the technical stuff are the ones tasked with the duties that require the technical stuff. (by the way- they will make more than you, have a easier time doing it, and be a much greater benefit to society) And NO ONE, no matter how intelligent, can grasp the concepts of complex algorithm theory the night before an exam. Maybe you can do that for your IOE classes. combine IOE with your fluf classes and its no wonder your gpa is “so high”. you aced psych 111! congrats!!!</p>

<p>that is not to say that people in IOE are stupid. that is certainly not true. there are plenty of individuals that major in that field because it interests them, and that is great for them. i respect that. but, you are clearly not one of those people. you are only doing it to get an easy in as a tech trader. </p>

<p>By the way, I am a majoring in computer engineering and I have a 3.92 (and I took all my LSA classes pass/fail, so they had no affect on my gpa - that is raw tech classes). Stop acting like you are gods gift, and most of all stop telling people you are an engineer. thats what really gets me. youre not, by any stretch, an engineer because you took one mechE class. go major in econ and leave the hard stuff to the people who care enough to actually respect it’s value. you might make 100k a year for one year, but I guarantee you will come to see your life is the third option from your incredibly insightful list of trader job opportunities (i know you are a genius and everything, but if you don’t remember that was jobless at 35) if you play madden all day at work. you aren’t that smart. if you were, your outlook on life would be quite different.</p>

<p>good luck though, you are going to need it.</p>

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<p>by the way, the exact quote was “3) Fail. Jobless when you are 35 without employable skill to go to other industry and have too many kids to feed”</p>

<p>that is true. with your approach, IOE does leave you “without employable skill”. you are a moron.</p>

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<p>yea, QwertyKey, i’m not sure about IOE, it is definitely the easiest major in the engineering school, but I have doubts that you can just cram, you definitely CANNOT do this in Mechanical Engineering. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, Einstein cannot cram the night before his thermo final.</p>

<p>foobarbaz-i agree what bearcats says is annoying coming from an IOE. but IOE is actually a very useful degree, if i were to do engineering school again, I would probably do IOE.</p>

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<p>"IOE does leave you “without employable skill”
You seem to forgot in the real world. it’s who you know, not what you know.
Plus, really? This is the probably with Michigan Engineering that I really don’t like. Engineering majors here focus on the technical skills, think people will hire them for their technical skills. The mentality is different at Penn Engineering according to my friend. </p>

<p>You think bankers learn any employable skills at school? No. Their employable skills come from modeling and deal experience, all come from work.
You think traders learn any employable skills from school? Other than quants, their employable skills come from watching the market, making traders, all come from work.
Actually, I did get an offer from DE Shaw before so I guess that speaks to my “employable skill” from engineering school.</p>

<p>And again, maybe it’s not true in the geek world, but in the business world, it’s who you know plus your experience, not what you know that determines how successful you are.</p>

<p>“if you play madden all day at work”
Actually, my cousin who’s a trader at one of the top prop shops (Jane Street, SIG or DRW) plays madden during downtime at work, which is quite often. In fact, the company provides the X-box 360, wii and PS3. So I guess it’s possible to be employed and make 7-digits and play video game at work.
I like your assumptions too. Like I would “play madden all day at work”. When I start doing something remotely interesting, like…hmm let’s see… trading? I would probably start applying myself. But right now, there’s no need to. All I have to do is maintain my gpa above the typical cutoffs for companies I am aiming for.</p>

<p>“the classes are a joke”
Take a 500 level stochastic program class and come talk to me again. IOE hosts the financial engineering program and many PhDs in other engineering disciplines who want to break into quant finance do the masters in financial engineering. Even some of them struggle in my stochastic class. So I would love to see you try.
Those are the only classes that I actually work hard for. I am not going to waste my time studying other than cramming the night before for some bull shyt linear stats class considering that the difference between cramming and actually studinyg is an A- and an A because the curve is lofted by so many idiots even though the material is extremely easy. </p>

<p>“they have a word for people who dont use their technical knowledge in the real world- mediocre. if you are mediocre…(by the way- they will make more than you, have a easier time doing it, and be a much greater benefit to society)”</p>

<p>Would love to see a software engineering geek make more than a banker or a trader. but hey… they got their “technical knowledge” down…</p>

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<p>For your information, my dad was a very high level managing director at Credit-Suisse for 10 years. Have you ever heard of complexity theory? Michigan is one of the leaders in the field. The reason that no one learns anything in college who is going into business is because macroeconomics is a terrible predictor of actual market performance. Complexity theory (which many of my fathers colleagues are very interested in) stops using simple mathematical predictions and uses computer modeling to represent random behavior (that is not necessarily logical, like bankers think) to predict future outcomes. It is attempting to make econ a science, rather than a profession run by connections and lack of education. (cough cough, that is you). BY THE BY, I RAN THAT COMMENT PAST MY DAD AND HE SAID QUITE THE OPPOSITE – IN FACT, IT IS WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT WHO YOU KNOW… But anyway, I guess you are right- since you are so brilliant and experienced and everything.</p>

<p>The point of my little tangent is that economics is a very poorly run field at this point and the whole landscape of the marketplace is changing. Why? Quants. My “technical education” is not just about physically learning how to program. It is about developing models of thinking. By understanding systems engineering (complexity theory), you develop the ability to reason (which you clearly haven’t developed very well). The technical skills that people learn at Michigan Engineering not only prepare them to design your blackberry (which I’m sure you use to BBM your friend at Penn about what color polo is going to be in next season or that cool new Drake song) but make them better thinkers than a lifetime of Madden ever will. I’m sure that is really exercising your brain. This is probably a generalization but you seem like a typical holier than now i-banker kid - and no matter how hard you try that is not cool to anyone, other than other i-bankers and people don’t like them very much right now. </p>

<p>Traders especially, will soon be replaced by computers. Have you ever heard of e-trade, fidelity? Why would I ever pay some moron who never learned anything in his formal education to place a trade for me when I can do it myself virtually commission free? Since you retain no knowledge if I crack open an annual report (with a little help from the “Quants” analysis), aren’t I just as knowledgeable as you? A “banker” is a very broad term. Oh and by the way, the people who make the most money in the banking profession (since that IS all you care about) are analysts — OH YEAH! AND THEY ARE THE “QUANTS” THAT YOU DON’T WANT TO AND NEVER WILL BE! </p>

<p>I was thinking about doing banking because of my dad. If you really believe “Its who you know” I could have an internship at a top 7 investment bank tomorrow (even though, you don’t “know” anything because you are very wrong about that opinion). BUT, EVERY IBANKER WANTS THEIR KID TO BE AN ENGINEER! Why? Because Engineering is what drives innovation and that is at the very crux of a strong economy. When I have a brilliant idea (although you may finance it) I bet that I will make a lot more than you will. Why? Because my technical knowledge is much more valuable than your knowledge of the Madden playbook. And that doesn’t even matter to me. What really matters is that I will be making a difference in peoples lives where you will be sitting on the sidelines counting a couple dollars. Good for you. I don’t respect that. Without me, you wouldn’t be able to post on this blog. Without the aerospace and mech engineer you wouldn’t be able to fly home. Without the chemical engineer you wouldn’t be able to get the swine flu vaccine. Those people actually are doing things. That is much more fulfilling then managing money, in my opinion.</p>

<p>And again, that is not to knock people in banking. If that really interests you, that is great for you. Just stop throwing around the arrogant and uninformed opinion that you are better than everyone else. My dad is incredibly educated in the intricacies of economic theory and does nothing but read on end about new theories. That is why he is so good, not because he knew anybody. The reason you are not included (in my opinion) with that group (the one who really cares about banking) is that you are just doing it for the wealth and the power. Or at least that is all you have on your side of the argument. (And by the way, I think you won’t be nearly as successful as you think you will be – the kid who gets a 4.0 in IOE will beat you out for a job. In fact, I would beat you out for a job because I am clearly more intelligent and capable than you are, based on your logic and reasoning skills - or lack thereof, rather). The point is, you need me to design something and I need you to finance it. Stop acting like you are better than everyone else because you are going to be a banker. We are co-dependent. </p>

<p>Maybe it is true the average banker makes more than the average computer engineer- but if you apply yourself at Michigan, and take advantage of all the school has to offer you will be far from an average engineer. We live in a world run by EDUCATED QUANTS, the days of the uneducated IBanker are over (not that they even really ever existed, but hey, I will entertain your argument). Everything is about efficiency, and efficiency is about math. If money is really all you care about (oh yeah, and all that prestige you get with it) you can take it from me - my dad has accrued much more experience in his career than you have in a summer internship. Your view of the world is very simplistic and outdated. Trust me, you will regret not learning technical skills.</p>

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<p>By the way, check this out: [The</a> 400 Richest Americans 2009 - Forbes.com](<a href=“Forbes List Directory”>Forbes List Directory)</p>

<p>How many of them are “geeks” and how many are traders? Maybe you should try reading, it can prove very beneficial sometimes (although I am sure you would disagree).</p>

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<p>i think he’s just getting frustrated because people around him aren’t talking about ibanking/consulting all day.</p>

<p>here’s a thought for you bearcats, why don’t u do EGL? I hear their placement into MBB is pretty good.</p>

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<p>He’s doing EGL…</p>

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<p>I want to make it clear, I have nothing against IOE majors or business guys. There are some really brilliant dudes in those fields. I just don’t like the ones who think they are better than everyone else because they <em>think</em> they will be getting a larger paycheck. Or claim to be smarter than everyone, and choose to belittle others because they are full of themselves. A seven figure income is no measure of ones worth, and it is a tragedy that bearcats believes he is so important. Everyone is equally important. We need the IOE majors, and the EECS majors, and the music majors. We need the kines majors, art history majors, pre-med guys, everyone. Without any of them the whole system would break down. (Maybe if bearcats took the time to understand systems thinking, he would understand this).</p>

<p>But, no matter what profession, the benchmark for quality of work is effort. I guess I was a little late to help you get your mojo back this term, but the answer is just to work hard. I work just as hard as anyone in the college. That is why I have a 3.92. Not because I am smarter than everyone else, but because I work hard. The EAC says that the average engineer should expect 35 hours of work outside of class each week. That is five hours a day, seven days a week. If you want your mojo back, just keep pushing yourself to be the best you can. We need you to do that, and you are doing a disservice to society if you don’t. We need you. You are just in a funk, and even if you end up graduating with a 2.5, that is totally fine because we still need you. Bearcats is all about minimizing education, and maximizing gpa so he can maximize his income. That is a terrible thing. Just work as hard as you can and maximize your education. Forget about the gpa- that stuff will work itself out in the long run if you work hard, I promise.</p>

<p>By we, I speak for all people, whether they choose to agree or not. Everyone is equally important to the greater picture- the human system- and all you can do is work as hard as you can. If you do that, I, and anyone else who has any sense, will show you nothing but respect. </p>

<p>Good luck, and be great. You can do it, for sure.</p>

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<p>hear hear, foobar</p>

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<p>It is known that most of Engineering curriculum is useless to engineers, so might well put ur time into more productive use.
Source:

[Will</a> Blog for Food: 10 Reasons Not to Go to College](<a href=“http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2006/11/10_reasons_not__1.html]Will”>http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2006/11/10_reasons_not__1.html)</p>

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<p>Well…</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It certinly depends on what classes you take. If you’re an EECS major who ends up programming at all, your programming classes weren’t useless. I’m sure that other analogies hold true for other majors, but that’s the one I can think of right now.</p></li>
<li><p>Part of college is about learning how to think.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>tentai, do you mind shedding some light on “productive use” of my time? Maybe I should just get C’s in all my math/engin classes since they’re useless and won’t help me in the long run? Maybe… we should all major in Asian Studies?</p>

<p>edit: i just read the first few lines of that blog. Sick. Obviously everyone’s going to be successful the way Bill Gates is. Obviously we should all quit college.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t suggesting that; i was thinking u could save ur time by bearcats method of cramming, etc</p>

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<p>Simplelife: My s is now a Senior admitted for Engineering. He too has always done very well with not as much effort as his peers and I also worried about this catching up with him in college. This year however has been a real challenge since HE chose to take 5 AP classes along with many EC’s etc. He is taking AP physics without taking regular physics first like most of the kids in his class. What I can tell you is that he is really working his but off to maintain his good grades and getting a very valuable lesson in time management which will really come in handy next year. My point is that his most challenging senior year has finally challenged him and changed his study habits just in time to take with him to Michigan, the #1 school of his choice.
My advice would be to encourage your son to continue to take a rigorous course load senior year to prepare him for what’s to come. Call it a test run of sorts to help you also determine the school that would best fit his needs.</p>