<p>
</p>
<p>Too bad for those people, eh, crescent? If that’s what this kid has to do, that’s what he has to do. People who don’t understand a young man having to save / economize are useless pigs.</p>
<p>i have been sharing some thoughts and ideas from this discussion with my son.</p>
<p>my son just received his dream job offer and is going to be heading off to the nyc area shortly. his top priority is finding housing – and housing that will allow him to still “live a little” while starting his career. </p>
<p>I do sympathize with the original poster–for some reason he seems to lack family support and that would indeed make this process much more difficult. I have helped my son shop for suits, shoes, shirts and ties–and none of that is really inexpensive. We will also be able to help with furniture and fixtures if needed. That type of help will really make a budget a little easier to work with. </p>
<p>Keep the ideas coming–my son has really enjoyed hearing some of the tips.</p>
<p>I have no qualms about bringing bagged lunches to work.</p>
<p>EDIT: My mistake – I totally misread that sentence.</p>
<p>142 - we have started talking about this, even in terms of choice of school/major. DD is going into Architecture, and we have discussed both the relatively low salaries, and the need to save during the relatively good times because of the inevitable bad times. In fact NYC is one of the best markets for Archies - greatest concentration of jobs, and somewhat higher salaries - and she would love to live there. But we are all agreed, I think, that there is no way no how that would she would start off living in Manhattan, and even to live in someplace like hipster Williamsburg, she will need roommates AND a frugal approach to living. And she will be (salary aside) in a better position than OP, as she WILL have the option of moving home in an emergency, and we will certainly be able to provide her with hand me down furniture and stuff, if not much cash. She needed to understand things like this before picking Architecture. It also affected her choice of schools, as RPI offered a better FA package than another school she was admitted to (though she will still have SOME loans coming out of RPI)</p>
<p>The real issue is that the OP doesn’t have a parental safety net–and all of our children do. That’s why it’s unfair to chastise him or judge.</p>
<p>Even if we’re not funding them at all currently, they know in the back of their minds that they could come to us if they got into financial (or other) trouble. If we didn’t have the money, we could always get loans, appeal to extended family members, etc. The OP cannot do this.</p>
<p>NYCFLUX has an Ivy League degree and is in tech/finance, obviously on his way up. His friends are in the same boat, but have an abundance, rather than poverty, mindset due to their upbringing. He should obviously be able to do fine as a single, young person on $65K–even in NYC. He just has to be able to wrap his head around that. He will be OK in a year or so, and have a nice story to tell in the future about how he struggled and worked his way up with no help from anyone else.</p>
<p>This thread is, if anything, only starting to depress me a bit.</p>
<p>I still have no real idea what direction I need to take things. I can’t decide between risking not having a worst-case-scenario nest egg, and spending more money on other things like insurance, nor am I sure how much to spend on food in a month or clothes. I appreciate the advice in this thread but I think a lot of it is being made from a perspective of having a safety net. If I absolutely wanted to, I could survive off one can of tuna per day (which is what I was doing during the 6 months I was unemployed) – but I’d really like to eat a bit better than that, esp. here in NYC. And there’s no way I’d be able to hold onto my girlfriend if she saw that side of me. The problem is that when I try to eat in or if I buy $5 lunches/dinners, it still feels like I am spending too much. The issue is trying to see if I can eat well for a significantly lower cost. But I think there has been enough advice in this thread in terms of where to shop, so I’ll probably check the prices out and see how to optimize.</p>
<p>mathmom, actually when we eat out once a week (usually Sat .night), it is not part of our food budget either, but rather part of our entertainment budget. I just know that young people in NYC are on the go and not always at home for a lunch or dinner and may occasionally pick up food on the fly in the city and so I figured this young man might do that at times, while trying to cook when possible and brown bag his lunch as possible. I know that my NYC kid is not always home at meal times due to the nature of her jobs and activities and not so much a choice to get food “out.”</p>
<p>I believe the OP is hanging out with and measuring himself against friends who have more means for whatever reason and that is why he sees his financial life as a struggle whereas as soon as I read the first post, I thought he had an EXCELLENT salary for a new grad and makes FAR more than my recent grad in NYC and most of her friends and so she’d feel rich if she had what he had. She and her friends all make do. We are not supporting out kid but we do pay for health insurance, and she does get gifts for occasions and from grandparents. But the OP makes more than all that combined.</p>
<p>soozievt: You mention that I make more than your child – is her marginal savings gain with each month post-expense less than mine (i.e. <1200) when you only count the fixed costs such as loans/rent/phone/etc (i.e. not food or clothing)?</p>
<p>I ask because even though an income might be decent, expenses/services acquired need to be factored in as well.</p>
<p>I cross posted with meagain and I understand the point that kids who know there is a safety net if they were even in a bind. That’s true. But the OP is making so much more than my kids (who have a safety net in case) that he should be OK. </p>
<p>NYCFlux…I do not understand why you keep asking how much to spend on each item. I know just me alone has mentioned a reasonable amount for you to spend on food, clothing, health insurance, incidentals, going out, and a very small amount for savings. That was out of your current discretionary funds. You could have even more for things like savings of whatever, if you move to a cheaper apartment share which you should do when your lease is up or if really strapped, get a subletter and leave your apartment sooner. But next year with a cheaper rent, you can afford to save more. Also, if you are worried about worst case scenarios, you will be wiped out much more if you have any health problem with no health insurance and so you should get a minimal monthly plan for that.</p>
<p>NYCFlux…
I did not see your post 149…not sure what you mean by my D’s “marginal savings gain post-expense”…do you mean money for savings? She has NONE. She has to try to earn what she needs to live and doesn’t earn enough to save. She had a savings, however, and so does have an emergency fund going into this. </p>
<p>But I think you are calling “savings post-expense” something else, meaning after loans, rent, phone…though I never saw it that way as food is an expense that is not an option!!! </p>
<p>Anyway, for one thing, my D doesn’t have a regular salary like you. She has several jobs and her income fluctuates. I don’t know her exact budget as she lives independently but we figure it takes a min. of $24,000 to live in NYC and so she tries for that to cover to live there. I told you her rent is $725. She also has utilities (not sure the exact amount). She has to get food and incidentals. She doesn’t have to pay for her school loans (we pay school loans). She doesn’t have to pay health insurance as either we paid it this past year (first year out of college), and due to the law she can go back on our family plan this Jan., and then for six months she earned health insurance through Actors Equity and the monthly payment was very very very little and we paid that since she doesn’t earn much money like you. So, we pay for health still. For phone, she is on the family plan, but she pays us $30 month for having a phone that has the internet on it which nobody else in our family has (just the basic type service). For clothes, she is buying very little and nowhere near what we bought her every year when we supported her. On occasion, she has been treated to something such as this week, she had a major event in her professional life yesterday, and I did get her an inexpensive dress and shoes. And sometimes her grandparents treat her to something. She gets a birthday present and a Hanukah present each year from us. She has traveled in the last few months to both Europe and Abu Dhabi but both trips were ones she was paid to due for work. </p>
<p>My daughter has some expenses, however, that you don’t have that involve investing in certain things in her career and so some prior savings money she had is used exclusively for that (won’t bore you with details as they do not apply to you but two examples are her headshots which are expensive and also recording professional CDs in recording studios of her original work and also paying for musicians and such).</p>
<p>The answer is not how much to spend on food, clothing, etc and how to economize and scrutinize each item. It is to decide how much you can comfortably put aside each month.</p>
<p>Do that (aka “pay yourself first”) and then spend the rest however you please. If you need to dip into your savings due to an unexpected need from time to time, so be it. Otherwise, you will put too much stress on yourself deciding if everything you buy is really “worth it”.</p>
<p>“I can’t decide between risking not having a worst-case-scenario nest egg,”</p>
<p>I dont think anyone is saying you should not save toward a worst case nest egg. I think some are wondering if trying to get a 15k nest egg in less than 15 months (which seems to be what you are trying to do) is realistic. Again I will not challenge that goal. But if thats your goal it probably makes more sense to move to somewhere VERY cheap (by NYC standards) and stop trying to keep up with more affluent friends, than it does to A. do without health insurance and B. Spend every day agonizing about what you have eaten. </p>
<p>You sound to me like you are setting yourself up for a nervous breakdown - thats not a good idea either. </p>
<p>You need to either decide you can relax with a lower pace of savings, or else you need to significantly reduce your “nut” (IE fixed costs). </p>
<p>Oh, and you need a GF whom you dont need to panic would leave you if you were poor.</p>
<p>soozievt: Yes, money for saving up. As in, if the account is worth X now, a year from now it would be X + 12*(post-expense marginal savings amount). Aka do you imply that whatever’s in the account now will be roughly the same amount in the account a year from now (spending what is earned)?</p>
<p>In other words, my current post-expense margin is, say, $900 (if we assume $300 for food per month). That means a year from now, at best, I can hope to have an account increase of 12*900 = 7200. This amount is lowered significantly if I “match” on things such as purchasing health insurance and clothes. My question is to get a feel for how much this post-expense margin goes up for most people over the course of a month/year assuming these expenses.</p>
<p>I consider food an option if only because it’s something that is far more controllable than other things (I have to pay a certain amount in loans, for instance, whereas this isn’t the case with food or clothing, which I can choose to forgo if need be). Other currently-fixed costs such as rent will certainly be lowered when my lease is up (and this will likely result in lower utility bills too). But until then I need to manage with what current conditions are.</p>
<p>Also, NYCflux…it doesn’t work to compare with my D who while she doesn’t pay for school loans or health insurance like you have to do, she makes like a third of what you make or so approximately and lives on it and so you should be able to live on more, and maybe save a little too (not as much a you may wish to save in the first year but many first year workers cannot save a lot and you can save more next year if you move).</p>
<p>Perhaps I’m mis-phrasing my question.</p>
<p>I understand that I earn more than your daughter and I further understand that there are expenses I have that she does not. But you imply that I should be able to spend more while saving the rest. I am asking if her disposable income – the amount she makes with each month after all of <em>her own</em> personal expenses are accounted for, is less than 900 dollars – would the account increase over a year be far greater/smaller than 12*900? If I were to look at the face value of the account on a computer today and then look at that same account on the computer a year from now, what might be expected in difference?</p>
<p>You of course do not need to answer this if you feel it is too personal, but this is what I am getting at with my inquiries. My apologies if I wasn’t clear before.</p>
<p>OPs problem is OP feels naked without 6 months living expenses in the bank, and OP has 12 months to go on a lease before he can really reduce his “nut”. </p>
<p>If I was OP I would try to figure out if there is ANYTHING I can do to get out of that lease early - a deal with the landlord, subletting, or whatever. That would be a better idea than skipping meals, doing without health insurance, etc.</p>
<p>If there is nothing that can be done about that, OP should consider moonlighting in some additional job - better to do that than go uninsured, or skip meals, etc.</p>
<p>I cross posted with you NYCFlux. But my D is not able to save ANY money out of her income. Her income, she hopes, is enough to stay afloat in NYC (her income is not all consistent and she has various jobs that change from time to time as they are not forever types of jobs, as is the case in her field of performing arts). </p>
<p>But as I mentioned to you before…you currently have $1255 per month after some fixed expenses. </p>
<p>I would allocate $450/month for food at the least (I do not agree that you can go without food, nor should anyone in your income bracket have to live on just ramen and tuna!). </p>
<p>I would allocate $150/month for clothing account (not that you buy it monthly but figuring it over a year) to get a working wardrobe this first year and then less on this next year as you can fill in with new shoes or something but not have to start from scratch. </p>
<p>I would allocate whatever you said the lowest health care plan is at your work…did you say $150/month? </p>
<p>I would allocate $200/month to going out in NYC, incidental items that arise, etc.</p>
<p>That leaves you $300/month toward savings. </p>
<p>THEN, as soon as you are able, I would move to a cheaper shared apartment, which would then give you another 4-500/month for whatever (such as savings if you prefer).</p>
<p>Now, I cross posted with post 156. My daughter doesn’t have a regular set salary like you do. But she has LESS to spend than you do after rent and what not. She makes FAR less than you. She aims to try to make $24,000 which she knows she needs in order to live without using any savings. She doesn’t have a regular paycheck. She has many paychecks and the jobs change throughout the year.</p>
<p>"That leaves you $300/month toward savings. "</p>
<p>see but that gives him $3600 in total savings (above whatever he has now) before he moves.</p>
<p>And not seeing 15k in his account is, it seems, giving him panic-anxiety attacks. He either will need to A. spend a lot less B. Find an additional source of income C. Find a way to move much earlier or D. Find a way to live with risk, without having that (potentially paralyzing, unhealthy) level of anxiety. </p>
<p>For some reason he seems focused only on A. And keeps coming back to it, after being given a lot of ideas on it. I strongly suggest trying some relaxation techniques.</p>