<p>An extraordinary man and life…</p>
<p>Carping about the success/failure of his successors is foolish and exceedingly narrow-minded, IMHO. In the decades preceding the actual event, it was inconceivable that apartheid and white rule could be overthrown in South Africa without a bloodbath. Absolutely inconceivable.</p>
<p>Thank you Cobrat and Consolation for your sobering words.</p>
<p>No need to argue about his legacy. Just ask many white South Africans, including Afrikaaners. Mandela and others, not the least of which is Bishop Desmond Tutu, assertively worked for RECONCILIATION, not retaliation, with the white minority. Mandela’s leadership and moral timber prevented a bloodbath, which surely would have resulted had the Apartheid militarists held on to repression much longer. DeKlerk and the other final leaders of Apartheid knew this.</p>
<p>“He was like the South African version of MLK”.</p>
<p>No, he wasn’t. The methods they supported to fight social injustice were in fact polar opposites. </p>
<p>Dr. King’s greatness comes from his stance that the only way to fight this injustice was through peaceful demonstration and resistance to social inequities. His example and strength of dignity shone a light for the world to see on the horrors of segregation in America. </p>
<p>Mr. Mandela choose to shine that light through other means. He was the co-founder of the militant Umkhonto we Sizwe, which ran a campaign of sabotage and violent resistance agianst the ruling White Minority Government who sponsored that abhorrent system of Apartheid. People tend to forget that this was what led to his eventual life sentence. </p>
<p>Was Mandela justified in his stance and support for violent resistance? Would we do the same? All questions for debate and some honest soul-searching (I personally think I would end up following his example over Dr. Kings’, which is why I admire Dr. King so much)</p>
<p>But this is NOT to say that Mandela did not become a great man. His TRUE GREATNESS came after he was released from decades of inprisonment and became the head of the new South African government, where he showed not only his own country but the whole world what it means to truly be a country where all are equal. He showed his countrymen, who lived through decades of oppression, through his own example that they must FORGIVE these past transgressions and treat their previous oppressors as equals, when it would have been so easy (and some would say justified) to fall victim to those most base of human natures of hatred and the need for revenge. This was why his legacy will serve as an example to the world for the ages.</p>
<p>Two great men, who will serve as examples of greatness for two different reasons. </p>
<p>And I agree, the state of South Africa now, while tragic, should not be a mark on his legacy. Especially when we realize that without his example of forgiveness and true belief in EQUALITY FOR ALL, it could have easily been much, much worse.</p>
<p>Wow, are you the bullet of bulletandpima fame? Welcome back, I suppose!</p>
<p>One and the same. And I thought it was more along the lines of “infamous”. :)</p>
<p>The film “Invictus” has Morgan Freeman playing Mandela and parts of the movie are very inspiring. I never knew Mandela was once a lawyer. Amazing Race had teams visit his jail cell and see the conditions he had to endure for a good portion of his life. Great leaders are hard to come by.</p>
<p>Well said and quite accurate, Bullet.</p>
<p>Yes, when it became clear that negotiations with the Apartheid regime were futile (and dangerous, I might add), Mandela and compatriots embarked on violence against the government, though rarely if ever targeting people, just installations and buildings, as I understand it. Though I wonder if Mandela and Co.'s actions ever remotely approached the horror of the Afrikanner government’s repression at Sharpville and at Soweto. Mandela’s conversion from armed opposition to peaceful reconciliation is all the more remarkable, given the utter brutality of the security forces under P.W. Botha and his predecessors.</p>
<p>Thank you, Bullet, and welcome back! Give our regards to Pima!! :)</p>
<p>Excellent points, that perfectly describe the greatness of Mandela.</p>
<p>I would recommend the 1988 film A World Apart, about Ruth First, for those who are interested in the struggle against apartheid.</p>
<p>Yes, ‘A World Apart’ is a fine film. That was roughly based on Joe Slovo’s (the white ANC member) family, wasn’t it? Also, don’t forget ‘A Dry White Season’ with Donald Sutherland.</p>
<p>Wow! Old home week! Hi Bullet!</p>
<p>Read this article in the LA Times about the modern day South Africa, where many argue that blacks are no better off today than under apartheid. The African National Congress, the corrupt and inept ruling party since Mandela’s ascent to the Presidency, has terribly mismanaged the economy as well as its educational, health care, law enforcement and social welfare systems. One needs to separate Mandela, the revolutionary, and Mandela, the leader and caretaker, in assessing his legacy.</p>
<p>[South</a> Africa struggles to live up to Nelson Mandela’s legacy - latimes.com](<a href=“Readers share memories of Nelson Mandela”>Readers share memories of Nelson Mandela)</p>
<p>Great article, Samurai–thanks!</p>
<p>Here is Kanye West on the subject :</p>
<p>[Standard</a> Digital News - Kanye West: “I am the Next Nelson Mandela”](<a href=“The Standard - Breaking News, Kenya News, World News and Videos”>http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/entertainment/m/?articleID=3252&story_title=kanye-west-i-am-the-next-nelson-mandela)</p>
<p>Goldenpooch, what you choose to take away from that article is … interesting. :rolleyes:</p>
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<p>His music sucks and he is doing everything he can to get someone to pay attention to his fading star. I hope he continues to crash and burn. </p>
<p>Read more: [Kanye</a> West’s Yeezus tour woes continue as just 4,500 people turn up to show at 19,000 seat arena | Mail Online](<a href=“Kanye West's Yeezus tour woes continue as just 4,500 people turn up to show at 19,000 seat arena | Daily Mail Online”>Kanye West's Yeezus tour woes continue as just 4,500 people turn up to show at 19,000 seat arena | Daily Mail Online)
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook</p>
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<p>They can vote now. That makes them infinitely better off.</p>
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<p>And they die 9 years sooner. Looks like they are wasting their votes.</p>
<p>Razor,</p>
<p>Unless you’re trusting crime/life expectancy statistics kept during the authoritarian Apartheid era where heavy handed censorship was practiced, rule of law routinely ignored by military/law enforcement agencies…especially against non-Whites and political dissidents, and crime in all-Black ghettos ignored unless it threatened the foundations of the Afrikaner dominated White minority government, I’d be interested to know on what basis you make your comparisons. </p>
<p>Not to mention there’s a bit of a vibe of the “But they made the trains/buses run on time and everything was orderly”* argument commonly made by defenders of WWII era fascist regimes and satirized by those who call BS on it. </p>
<p>Very interesting considering there were many Nazi/Axis sympathizers among the Afrikaners in the two Afrikaner-dominated nationalist parties** which won the 1948 elections which enabled them to implement Apartheid policies and encourage brutishly horrid enforcement of them. </p>
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<li>Actually, most friends who specialized in WWII Germany have found that excuse to be especially ironic as Nazi Germany and the Europe it occupied was actually far from crime free, trains didn’t always run on time, and the government bureaucracy was the epitome of inefficiency due to infighting over juristiction/turf between agencies. And regarding the Pacific theater…the serious interservice rivalry between the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy was such it actually undermined Imperial Japan’s war effort and communication within the militarist dominated government.<br></li>
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<p>** Combination of kindred spirits as some Afrikaners were of German descent, sympathized with the racial ideologies of the Nazis, and their vehement hatred of the British going back to the Boer War(1899-1902).</p>
<p>Can we please remember that Apartheid ended in my lifetime? I am not very old! It doesn’t magically get all better overnight. It hasn’t even been a full generation since Apartheid. People and systems don’t change on just because laws do. That’s not how this works. Look at our own history for evidence of that.</p>
<p>Yeah, they can vote but what good is it when there is only one Party. They have no viable alternatives; it is a democracy in name only.</p>