Neo-Atheists

Parent Cafe
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<p>

I’ve also had some people attempt to push their religions on me (mostly the Jehova Witnesses and Mormons who go door to door and some newly born-again types) but the vast majority of people practicing a religion don’t push it on others. Entering a religious conversation with Atheists will frequently result in the religious person attempting to justify their position and the Atheist attempting to justify their own position. We’re seeing some of it here in this thread. I see little difference in the attitudes between the two in this case.</p>

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<p>“I’m not arguing that they don’t. However, it’s much easier to find a parochial school that doesn’t teach evolution in biology class than it is to find a public high school that doesn’t teach evolution in biology class.”</p>

<p>I would say that is equally as difficult to find a biology class that supports a religion as it is to find a religion that supports biology class :).</p>

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<p>“Entering a religious conversation with Atheists will frequently result in the religious person attempting to justify their position and the Atheist attempting to justify their own position.”</p>

<p>Ultimately, though the atheist will just call the relgious person an illogical imbecile; whereas, the religious person will emphatically declare that the atheist is going to hell, sometimes even helping the atheist on his/her journey there. Who does more harm?</p>

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<p>“but the vast majority of people practicing a religion don’t push it on others”</p>

<p>The Conquistadors and members of the Inquisition were absolutely lovely people; brimming with altruism and compassion.</p>

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<h1>49, #50. Why should I pay for parochial school or other when I already pay taxes to support public schools? I expect my public schools to teach a balance approach to learning. Pushing one form of dogma ignores the existance of the other catsma.</h1>

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<p>If you don’t like the teaching, you can always leave, ITM. We pay private school tuition because there were many things about the public school with which I was dissatisfied. </p>

<p>We pay taxes (and it’s a very pretty penny’s worth) too. Since I was the one who didn’t like what was going on, I removed my child. </p>

<p>That’s a parent’s perogative.</p>

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<p>^ And if the parents can not afford parochial or parents wish to exercise perogative in balanced powerpoints?</p>

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<p>I agree. I resent having my tax dollar used to teach evolution when everyone knows the world was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.venganza.org/[/url]”>http://www.venganza.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>The Spaghetti Monster is one of my favorites, but I still have to say that the Celestial Teapot is the best.</p>

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<p>Digmedia - bravo.</p>

<p>But Itstoomuch is right - we do teach science and other reason-based things in public schools and don’t teach faith-based ideologies. We actually have chosen, as a Nation, and in fact that choice does have a basis in the beliefs of the men who wrote the Constitution.</p>

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<p>“Balanced,” my right shoe. Scientists believe the basic tenets of evolution not because they have a faith-based stake in it, but because the overwhelming balance of the physical evidence indicates that life has descended with modification from a common ancestor.</p>

<p>I’m not an atheist, but I am a scientist (and one raised as a fundamentalist Christian to boot!). It is irresponsible to teach “alternative” (ie religious) viewpoints on evolution in high school science classes – if, one day, a scientist develops a theory which substantially debunks evolution, we will teach that in science classes. But, please, religion thinly disguised as science insults both people of faith and people of science.</p>

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<p>I find it so sad that some parents are sooo afraid of science and evolution</p>

<p>If we thought like that, and said, well, if it ain’t in the bible, ferget about it, guess we wouldn’t have vaccines, cancer medicines, etc, and maybe those parents shouldn’t avail themselves of these things if they so disagree with biology etc</p>

<p>Seems kind of hypocrtical to enjoy the fruits of scientific research, knowledge, etc while denoucing much of it a fraud</p>

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<p>Not to be offensive Kluge, but you evidently no nothing of the founding fathers. Most adamantly opposed Christianity and religion in general.</p>

<p>James Madison:</p>

<p>“Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” </p>

<p>"“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” </p>

<p>John Adams:</p>

<p>“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.” </p>

<p>“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” </p>

<p>Thomas Jefferson:</p>

<p>“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man”</p>

<p>“A professorship of theology should have no place in our institution.”</p>

<p>“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.”</p>

<p>Benjamin Franklin:</p>

<p>“Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.”</p>

<p>“In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it.” </p>

<p>Ethan Allen:</p>

<p>"“I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not.” </p>

<p>Treaty with Tripoli:</p>

<p>As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musslemen; and as the said States have never entered into any war or act of hostility against the Mehomitan nation, it is declard by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.</p>

<p>Drafted under George Washington and signed by John Adams</p>

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<p>Wow, qwilde, great collection of quotes!</p>

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<p>More quotes by our founding fathers - in favor of religion:</p>

<p>President George Washington, September 17th, 1796</p>

<p>“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible”</p>

<p>His Prayer At Valley Forge “Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee.”</p>

<p>"Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus. “Of all dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.”</p>

<p>“To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian.”</p>

<p>Patrick Henry </p>

<p>“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations.”</p>

<p>Benjamin Franklin Address at the Constitutional Convention Thursday June 28, 1787</p>

<p>"I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth – that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?</p>

<p>President John Adams </p>

<p>“The highest story of the American Revolution is this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”</p>

<p>President Thomas Jefferson
“The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart.”</p>

<p>President John Quincy Adams
“It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God.”</p>

<p>James Madison</p>

<p>“We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/debate.htm[/url]”>http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/debate.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Guess you couldn’t trust anything a politician says - even back then!</p>

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<p>“Guess you couldn’t trust anything a politician says - even back then!”</p>

<p>Wow, how true! No wonder both sides of the debate claim the founding fathers back them up. This is great, to have their contradictory quotes all together in one place!</p>

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<p>ain’t googling great??? By the way, qwilde, no offense intended, I actually sit on the atheist/pro-science side of the fence…just playing devil’s advocate.</p>

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<p>qwilde:</p>

<p>

I should have clarified that the vast majority of people I’ve known who practice a religion have not pushed it on me in any way (JWs, Mormons coming to my door - as opposed to Mormons I’ve had as friends and co-workers, and born-agains excepted).</p>

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<p>So which version of Creation do you teach? How do you discuss each version? Do you even want to prove or disprove Creation?</p>

<p>So FountainSiren, are you back to school, and ready to add 2 thoughts?</p>

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<p>Actually qwilde, what I meant was that by including the “establishment” clause in the first amendment, the nation’s founders elected to take America out of the religion business. By making that choice, they created the issue Itstoomuch complains of - we don’t treat faith-based dogma the same as we treat science-based analysis. A nation which formally tolerates all religion but by virtual of its fundamental principles cannot endorse any of them is inevitably in tension with the desire of the advocates of religion (any of them) because religion inherently demands recognition which this nation’s public agencies cannot give - not that the advocates of institutionalized religion will stop trying to change that.</p>