I think, if OP comes back, it would be helpful to them - because the data is the data.
it’s not made up.
It’s something to think about.
OP can do with or ignore as they desire.
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Please move on from the back and forth. That horse is dead. Thanks.
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Yes, the data is the data…but context is important.
When I look at these positions and employers, it is clear to me that many/most of these positions are temporary, gap year/transition type jobs.
Is it possible that a few are not? Yes, it is…but not most.
Some majors lend themselves to grad school/med school more than others. That does not mean that a neuroscience major cannot find employment.
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I don’t see a lot of daylight between UNC and UMd. Both are great. You could just go with your gut, but Some things to consider.
Most students change majors. So which schools offers other options, and can you get into them? Some limited enrollment programs at Maryland are very tough to transfer into.
I won’t beat the dead Neuro horse again… well maybe a Little. Basically, science BS degrees will get you entry level science roles. We do know a recent UMd Neuro grad who got an entry level FDA job that was OK. But nothing special. Same with my son with a BS in chemistry = basic Lab job. Neither paid well.
If you want good job prospects, I think you want to flip the script. Major in data science, data analytics, business analytics, or finance/business and if you love Neuro then do a minor or dual major. This provides “domain knowledge” to go with the data/business skills which employers do like. That’s a serious pay bump and a better job search. And you can still “do Neuro”…Now, which school works better for that??
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@momsearcheng Thats really good to know - small in what way? (re: UMD)
How would one get a sense for whether a program is small or large? ie if I wanted check the UNC neuro program for comparison, any particular data points one should look for? number of professors… courses… something else?
To everyone who responded - you all have been AWESOME. This has been such a rich conversation, you have given me a LOT to think about.
Thanks for the pointers to the data sources - I will check it out directly as well. The suggestion to double major in something like data science, or flip the script, are interesting… tricky part is that kiddo is doing okay in math in high school, but doesnt LOVE it. (double advanced math, but after getting high A’s thoughout high school, by end of senior year is at B+ in Calc BC… which is not great for confidence, though I’ve pointed out that B+ doesn’t mean you’re “weak” in maths!)
Also appreciate the point to check how easy it is to change to another major like Data Science or Biz, or Econ, should one want to. (UMD has some Limited Enrollment Programs, will have to check the details, and also see what it is like at UNC.)
Lastly, @Mwfan1921 thanks for sharing the info about your D, thats exactly the kind of example that is helpful (obviously doesnt guarantee that it will work for everyone).
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If they are getting As and B+s in Calc BC they have all the math skills they need for data careers. They will need to take linear algebra and occasionally one more Calc course for a data science degree (likely not analytics) but the rest is more about coding (Python, R scripts) and not math. And even less math for business.
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If you look at Neuro at UMD, it is (or it was last time I looked at) mostly classes from other departments. Not some concentrations or significant options like at other colleges. You can compare Upitt Neuro requirements/options to UMD to get understanding what I am referring to.
Also department by itself I think small. For example, Psychology department has much more options and I believe more students.
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When does the student need to make their decision? Did these schools move to May 15?
I would consider having the student email the undergraduate neuroscience advisors at both schools. They can explain their career interests, ask about opportunities, maybe connect with other students etc.
I believe that success can be achieved at both schools and the student should attend the one they like better…but…maybe some additional information from those within the dept will help.
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UMD has moved to a June 1st deadline because of the FAFSA fiasco.
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Didn’t mean to respond to @momsearch but I can’t get it to “unreply”, lol.
I don’t know anything about neuro at these schools… But neuro is interdisciplinary by nature and pretty much all the undergrad courses can be taught in either a bio or psych department. Some programs have courses with a special neuro prefix, but others don’t bother to do that and instead just keep the bio or psych prefixes (or whatever designations the courses had before the neuro major was created). Comparing requirements and course offerings between schools is good, but I wouldn’t consider course prefixes as proxy for the strength of the program.
In browsing the requirements for the neuro major, they’re pretty similar between UNC and UMD. UMD’s is a traditional bio major, with neuroscience electives and 2 main options for a concentration, both of which offer quite a bit of flexibility (could do very little psych, or quite a bit). This is pretty standard for a neuro major, since it’s usually exactly that: a classic bio major with neuro electives. UNC’s is similar, with slightly less of the traditional bio degree requirements. They do appear to offer CS classes as electives to fulfill major requirements, and you don’t pick a specific track so it might be the better choice for someone interested in data science stuff.
But if your student wants UMD, they could ask if they can get permission to have CS classes fulfill neuro elective requirements. If they plan a minor in data science or CS, that might not matter much anyway since there will be rules about double-dipping major and minor courses (2 courses max at UMD, and fewer than half of the minor credits at UNC).
But UNC has some funny course titles! Beats me why they call Gen Chem “General Descriptive Chemistry” and Calc 1 “Calculus of Functions of One Variable I” and Physics 1 “Introductory Calculus-based Mechanics and Relativity” and Cell Bio “How Cells Function”. That can make it a little confusing to compare curricula.
FYI, at UNC, you have to take ~2 years of prerequisites before applying to the business administration minor: “Admission is both selective and competitive with approximately 70 students admitted to the business minor. Students… may apply to the business minor at the beginning of their second or third year.”
UMD offers a few different flavors of business minors, including an online general business minor that requires an application but no prerequisites and can apply after their first semester. They also offers a business analytics minor that requires an application but no prereqs and can apply after they’ve “Completed a minimum of 45 credits at the university level, with a minimum of 12 credits at UMD”.
The data science minors at both schools appear to be unrestricted.
I think both schools sound like great options, and the major and minor offerings are more similar than they are different. But I’d encourage you and your kid to explore them yourselves.
Excluding course offerings, does your student like one school more than the other in general?
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My daughter went to UNC (not neuroscience) and I am still in the parent group. Right now the parents are posting graduation pictures and what their kids are doing next. A few of them are neuroscience majors (one double majored with psychology and others have different minors) and here is what I learned (sample of 5 so far):
1 is going to work for a healthcare software company- there is no mention of grad school or what the position is
1 will be employed as a medic while they study for the mcats
1 has a job in a lab while they study for the mcats
1 is working in the neuroscience center while they apply to grad school (did not say what they are going to grad school for)
1 has a research position and will be applying to med school
This is just a sample of 5 but it aligns with the jobs posted above and shows that many of the jobs that neuroscience majors take are intended to be transition/gap type jobs…but probably not all (as noted in the first example). Neuroscience seems to be a popular major!
My daughter said she received a survey 6 months after graduation.
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@ColdWombat kid liked the UNC vibe but lately has said both UNC and UMD would be fine. (I want to make sure we pick an option kid likes, because college is tough, and IMO if you don’t like the place to begin with, or ‘somebody else picked it’, every difficulty adds to the complaints; while inconveniences will get overlooked if kid is involved in decision.) Deadlines for both have moved due to FAFSA, as pointed out above.
In any case, college is a journey not a destination, so we are trying to stay focused on career outcomes, hence this whole thread. Have chatted with kid about minoring in econ/data science, or flipping and switching neuro to minor - kid is open to the idea. So based on ideas from this thread, am also checking how easy it is to change majors at each school, possibly to Data Science, Econ, or Biz. (Biz and CS are Limited enrollment at UMD, it appears).
Normally, we would go for the higher ranked option, which is UNC. One complicating factor, which I didnt mention earlier, is that kid has a LOT of food allergies (milk, wheat, eggs, nuts), and while both UMD and UNC have arrangements that would work, UMD appears to have better options. I didn’t mention earlier because I was trying to not over-complicate, and wanted to first figure out… other things being equal, is one better than the other for the course of study. My takeaway from the discussion here is that for Neuro, both colleges are about the same - and that there are some inherent weaknesses in Neuro itself as a single major if one does not want to do research or MD.
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OP, I think you are on a right track. Indeed UMD for a while has limited enrollment, and I believe students not from a major have very limited access to registration during initial phase. I know that Business school and CS major are the most difficult to get accepted to at UMD. Also some schools allow change of majors or adding another major/minor please verify with a school. I know many schools changing rules constantly and students get left out (changing GPA without notice, limits #of students in the program etc.). I would go with the one that will allow your child the most flexibility.
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I sent you a DM. Look for the indicator next to your avatar in the upper right corner of your screen.
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OP- while most neuroscience majors do go into research or some kind of healthcare field, this does not hold true for all (as noted).
I would have the student contact the departments and ask about those opportunities and career paths.
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I think you’ve done a great job of distilling a lot of info to try to figure out your kid’s priorities and help them move toward a decision. I’m a neuro prof and you’re welcome to DM me with any questions.
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