<p>I should have made it clearer that I have not looked at what it takes to get into Smith, Wellesley, Holyoke and Bryn Mawr currently, but was taking at face value the poster’s view that Bryn Mawr was a safety compared to Bard and Reed (granted, neither is a rigid GPA/SAT school, but that did not seem relevant).</p>
<p>Rockville’s caution is a wise one, but I note that on Princeton Review, Bucknell is rated at the 96th percentile in selectivity vs. Wellsley at 97th, so that student’s issues may have surfaced there, too. The middle 50% ACT for Bryn Mawr is reported as beginning at 27.</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree that prestige should be discounted in favor of fit (notwithstanding that resume value in a downeconomy is not insignificant) and that many people lose out on merit aid by emphasizing reaches rather than safeties.</p>
<p>I suggest that for B/B+ kids, there is particular value to aiming for schools where they will receive merit aid, as it will give them an often-needed boost in academic self-esteem and suggests the school is one where they will feel above average.</p>
<p>hornet - thank you for your thoughtful and heartfelt post. Much of what you said is true for my D. She just doesn’t tend to like being around people who munch on stats and “what did you get on…” She respects kids who study all the time but just doesn’t want to spend her life that way, and she doesn’t have that last “oomph” of ability that will get her As in all subjects without working hard. But she puts in the effort when it matters to her, which is moreso all the time.</p>
<p>AND she had an older sister who was top in her class and is very industrious, hardworking, directed, etc. Much of HS was spent trying to find a different identity than following in those footsteps. I’m grateful every day that she didn’t fall into doing really dumb stuff to prove she was different and I’ve been able to be patient while she explores how she wants to live her life.</p>
<p>I’m glad we have a whole year for her to figure out where she wants to be in a peer group in college. Some will be decided for her, as she gets responses from schools at different levels of selectivity and intensity. But eventually I’m betting she’ll be deciding between some very definite spots on that spectrum. It’ll be scary for all of us, but considering how far she’s come in the past year I’m suspecting she’ll make a wise decision next April.</p>
<p>And my two cents on the GPA vs test question comes from our GC, who said what I’ve been figuring all along: GPA (combined with course choice, rigor, class rank, etc.) shows what you could make out of whatever HS you attended, and colleges know what kind of HS it is. Tests are where you measure up to national standards (but include variables like anxiety, LDs, being sick that day, etc.). One is internal, and the other is external. I think most schools use each one in their own way. I can see where some schools have decided the tests have too arbitrary a nature, and I’m grateful for that myself. But on the other hand, with our pretty provincial little HS I’ve been glad for a standard reckoning for my kids. It puts everything else into a pretty useful perspective, even if you then discard it.</p>
<p>I don’t think we really looked at GPA’s in this admissions cycle or the last year’s either. SAT scores were what we focused on. Northeastmom, I agree with you, many schools recalculate it anyway: may take out Art, Music, Physical ED & recalculate with their own formulas. As S has always been in band, we knew that would probably be disregarded. He did well with his SAT scores, which helped & his musical abilities also helped.</p>
<p>Congrats to all the S and D of the parents on this board for making a step towards furthering their education.</p>
<p>I kinda lurked around the board for the last week until the crowd died down but i have a question now. </p>
<p>Will the fact that my son ,who wants to be an engineering major, has had a Math and Science average of about 90 if you look through his transcript benefit him even though he has only a 3.2… GPA?</p>
<p>Depends on where he wants to go. At our state U (that has a challenging admit for engineering and design), kids with borderline scores/grades will often enter as a social sciences or education major , take the harder chemistry, calculus and physics that the engineering and pure science students take and, apply for consideration for the engineering school after proving themselves with the rigorous science classes during their freshman year. Earning 5s on APs (b/c calc, chem, physics) and a really high SAT math and SAT II math will often offset a B average. Finally, there is the community college route (varies according to the state you are in). Our CC offers the more challenging 3 semester calculus and calc based physics. Students enter the engineering school from there as juniors typically do well. A friend’s son, who was a less than stellar high school student did that route and is currently completing his Master’s in EE at NC State.</p>
<p>yabeyabe - agree completely with your comment re merit aid for the B/B+ kid giving them a much needed boost in self-esteem. I also think it is very important for this type of student to be in the middle of the pack - not at the bottom. My older son is a much stronger student - and up to the challenge of competing for A’s, being motivated to work harder to keep up, etc. S2 does not generally rise to the challenge - instead he feels defeated. He commented to me recently how frustrating it is for him to be, as a 10th grader, in an honors algebra 2 class with 9th graders who are getting A’s, while is is struggling to hang on to a B. This one anecdote reinforces my belief that we need to look at colleges where he will be at least mid-range - maybe even 75th percentile both to increase the odds of merit aid and to give him a bit of a boost academically.</p>
<p>FTCDad, I think with the SAT’s you already posted for your S, he would be an excellent candidate for those 3 schools! Plus you already said your S feels he could improve those SAT scores, so even better shot at all 3 of them!</p>
<p>FTCdad,
Another small private for B students with good merit aid and a tech focus is Florida Institute of Technology. [Florida</a> Institute of Technology](<a href=“http://www.fit.edu/]Florida”>http://www.fit.edu/) This one is on our list for my son. I have a friend whose daughter is a freshman there in chemical engineering and she LOVES it. The majority of students are from out of state. It was started by NASA and still has a strong relationship with it. (I apologize if I mentioned this before)</p>
<p>Rockvillemom, your approach seem svery wise to me–he sounds like a perfect candidate for a school where he will feel a boost from merit, feel above the norm and be in a small, nurturing and friendly environment. You are way ahead of whre I was last year.</p>
<p>FTCdad, I think are absolutely right that his math/science scores will carry more weight.</p>
<p>good morning all…ok boys and girls: college list is coming together very nicely but we need your help…all schools on the list are matches or semi-safeties based on ACT score; GPA is a different story, but her school keeps telling me that they are looked at differently, so ignore GPA ranges for the most part…</p>
<p>sooo, my daughter would like to find a non-binding, rolling school that she knows she will be in and be “going to college” early in the fall…</p>
<p>Doesn’t want a huge (like Indiana) one…can be private or public; preferably East of the Mississippi, but we’re open to suggestions…</p>
<p>Some of the ones I have looked at: (and wouldn’t mind feedback on)</p>
<p>University of Kansas
Towson</p>
<p>Both are larger than what she is “aiming” for…</p>
<p>any other ideas?..at this point, let’s eliminate financial concerns (since we know it’s non-binding…)</p>
<p>Deal breakers: no nearby airport, wants some type of media/comm courses…</p>
<p>FlowntheCoopDad - Your son sounds a lot like my S1, who (a few years ago) was accepted at Rose-Hulman, RPI, and CSM, all with nice merit scholarships (some of those might have been based on weighted GPA, which was much higher due to the number of AP classes he took.) You might also want to look at WPI. If you can, visiting these schools and talking with admissions people could help your son target the right schools for him.</p>
<p>For kids that are a bit “lopsided”, they need to demonstrate passion for math & science, taking as many AP’s in those subjects as they can. For merit money, doing well on SAT’s (or ACT) would be key. I bribed both my sons $1 per point for raising their SAT scores. An excellent return on investment when you consider what merit scholarships are worth over 4 years!</p>
<p>I think the relative value of SATs vs. GPA depends a lot on the relation between the two. For a kid like our son, whose SATs were far ahead of his GPA, the SATs were of relatively little importance. I think there was one school where his scores clearly helped him significantly, but only one. At the other schools he applied to, his results were pretty much what you would expect if he had had the same GPA but a composite SAT as much as 200 points lower (because even at 200 points lower, his scores would still have been on the high side relative to his GPA). </p>
<p>I think the rule of thumb that we have gleaned from this process is that the larger the gap between grades and scores, the less the higher of the two can help you and the more the lower of the two will determine your fate. Call it a law of diminishing returns: A 2000 composite SAT will help a 3.3 GPA somewhat, but a 2200 SAT won’t help much more.</p>
<p>Emmybet… Thanks again for hiting the nail on the head again for me. My S also is uncomfortable being around the stat"munchers" lol… and hates when anyone in the class asks what their grade is. He also likes to do MANY things and studying all day is NOT one of them. He’s perfectly happy working only marginally hard to get B’s and B+'S. On the positive side his teacher’s adore him for this and absolutely LOVE that he is not obsessed about grades and is in the class to actually learn as much as he can. Grades are secondary. They say he is a breath of fresh air at his uber competitive prep school. Something that I found funny was the he LOVED Reed college when he visited. This goes back to your thoughts on fit. Although I think he would have a good chance of getting in there, based on his extremely high SAT scores, I don’t think he fully understands the “study till you die” culture of the school. Based on prior evidence, he would hate that. So, we are now trying to find schools that are similar to Reed in their school values and culture, but maybe not so intense academically. He kind of threw me for a loop on that one, because before I thought he would like and apply to a few schools that were pretty safe for him, now I know he would hate some of them.</p>
<p>"My son joined the Goucher class of '14 page but has only posted once to it as far as I can tell, just a “like” or a comment or something. I’m biting my tongue so hard it’s going to bleed, because if I tell him to participate more that will only remind him that I’m hanging around there, and guarantee that he avoids the place. "</p>
<p>My son joined the Loyola class of '14 page and hasn’t posted a thing, but I’m also biting my tongue. I hope he does, I’m seeing some kids he could hitch rides with!</p>
First thing I thought of when I read this was Hampshire–the impression I got there is that it’s the ultimate environment for someone who is curious and self-motivated but doesn’t thrive in a high-pressure atmosphere. (I really thought it would be perfect for my son, but alas, he disagreed.) I’d also take a look at Clark, Bard, and Goucher, where my son is going. Of those three, Bard is probably the most demanding, though I didn’t get the sense that it was in Reed’s league (the daughter of a friend is going to Reed and reports that the academic demands are, indeed, pretty intense, especially in terms of reading and writing load). </p>
<p>But these are all Northeastern schools–I don’t know where you are or what region(s) you’re looking in other than the Pacific NW.</p>