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<p>Except the scientists happened to have made a clear, incredible impact on the world. The world today is what it is because of them. Every part of your life is positively affected by science - including the computer you used to type this. </p>
<p>That’s very different from the wonderful religious wars, discrimination, ignorance, and all the other fun stuff we’ve gained from religion over the years. Tell me when religion’s going to cure diseases, keep us warm, or feed us.</p>
<p>Hi tetrahedr0n! 
Don’t let life disillusion you. Some of the greatest scientists and mathematicians found analogy between the perfection of science and the perfection of God. Leibniz, for instance, understood the notion of “infinity” through theology, and was then able to define max and min of functions – infinity is otherwise such a foreign and artificial concept. The idea that the universe is rational and can be understood also comes from religion. And if you don’t find those to be compelling enough… well, without the identity-preserving nature of Judaism, for instance, there would never have been such a concentration of intelligence genes that resulted in… well, I can go on and on with the names, and I’m sure you can as well.</p>
<p>my athiesm was in full force before college and still is now… unless science proved there was a god somehow I could never even be “spiritual”</p>
<p>Frozen-tears, you are truly retarted. To imply that all Jews are genetically smarter is to be not even ignorant, but just a plain moron.</p>
<p>As for your attempt to make it like religion is very helpful in today’s world is also stupid. It comforts some(not gives them “truth”), but makes it like everything will be ok. It’s a comfort blanket that disillusions all who follow it. However, that’s ok with me. The problem is that these disillusioned people are the same people who try to take over the laws and make America a Christian Nation, something I would consider the worst thing to happen ever.</p>
<p>HueyFreeman, it has essentially already happened.</p>
<p>“religion is the opiate of the masses said marx. let those who wish be sedated… just don’t sedated people run the country”
<p>HueyFreeman, first, I wasn’t talking about comforting people, I was talking about calculus.</p>
<p>Second, I never implied that all Jews were genetically smarter (and actually it only applies to Ashkenazi Jews), though studies do show that intelligence is mostly genetic in origin and that genes tend to concentrate where there is a lot of intermarriage in the same pool. Of course, this also puts the group in risk of diseases like Crohns and Tay-Sachs. Some studies even hypothesize that these particular intelligence genes are linked to the recessive genetic diseases. So I’m not saying that Jews have superior genes or anything like that – just characterizing how religion and even religion-created eugenic pressure might have had a positive impact on science. (And good grief, don’t even try suggesting that I support eugenics.)</p>
<p>You ought to keep up with your news and science.</p>
<p><a href=“http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/[/url]”>http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/</a>
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/science/03gene.html?ex=1275451200&en=efcc603583e17b54&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/science/03gene.html?ex=1275451200&en=efcc603583e17b54&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss</a></p>
<p>OH PLEASE, you got to be kidding me. Here is your quote: “well, without the identity-preserving nature of Judaism, for instance, there would never have been such a concentration of intelligence genes that resulted in… well, I can go on and on with the names, and I’m sure you can as well.” That is not only implying that Jews are naturally smarter, but you are blatantly stating they are!</p>
<p>The idea that the universe is rational comes from religion…? Really? How so?</p>
<p>Sure. There are proportionately more smart Jews in the Ashkenazi Jewish population than there are smart people in the rest of the population. (I’m not being ethnocentric here; I’m not Jewish). That’s like saying “private school students have better chances at the top universities than public school students” – it doesn’t say anything about the specific intelligences of individuals (I went to a public high school, by the way). I’ll give you a couple more generalizations – the average woman is smarter than the average man, but there are more male geniuses than female geniuses. Bisexual men are fairly rare; most men are either mostly gay or mostly straight. On the other hand, women are not as polarized in distribution. Don’t take the statistics personally, they’ll have a negative impact on you through stereotype threat. </p>
<p>Besides, the not naming names thing is something of an inside joke between tetrahedr0n and myself. :p</p>
<p>Well, if you look at the tribal religions of Africa and the Aborginal religions, you can see a glimpse of what the first religions might have been like. These religions are different from the organized religions of the contemporary western world because they’re not simply metaphysical doctrines and moral philosophy as defined by Stephen Jay Gould – they are completely tied with and inseparable from “science,” if you will. Of course, this science is not what we think of as science – not Sir Francis Bacon and Rene Descartes – it’s more like the science of Aristotle’s time, of the four elements and the bodily humours. Rural African healers, for example concluded that AIDS travels through bodily fluids through their own logic – that bodily fluids carry the soul and disease is an affliction of the soul. Of course, we would call this unscientific, but it’s only unscientific by our standards, because logic and making sense of the world is the basis of science.</p>
<p>But that is the purpose of both science and religion, isn’t it? (According to early 20th century British philosopher Mary Midgley, anyway.) To discover the truth of the universe though they aim at very different kinds of truth? When you go back to the beginning, when science and religion weren’t as distinctively separated as they are here today, you find that it was all to the same end; from then on, science borrowed from religion (the idea that there is a perfect truth out there) and religion from science (the idea that metaphysical truths can be explicated rationally). Think of them as two animals that evolved from the same common ancestor.</p>
<p>^ science will eventually wipe out religion for rational people it’s just a matter of time</p>
<p>You’d think college would be a place for rational thought, not religion. But whatever floats your boat…</p>
<p>Well you are correct in that science and religion want to understand this world. The difference is that science requires evidence, tests, and proof before it can be held as true. Religion is a “faith” based thing that does not answer any questions with any type of proof. People just use religion to comfort themselves. If you want to classify science and religion as two animals evolving from a common ancestor, ok, but they are quite different at this point in time. As stated science actually needs proof before considered true, while religion requires a simple “Well I believe it, so it’s true” attitude". Religion is now holding back science in many ways(people trying to block stem cell research and teaching creationism as if it was science).</p>
<p>Well, you can’t look at the extremist crazies of any group and use them to generalize the rest of a group, however strong your feelings about something may be. For instance, you can’t say that “all Nazis were Hitlers and Himmlers,” because the great majority of them, even those who killed on a daily basis, were simply ordinary civilians who were psychologically manipulated. Also, religion is not based on faith any more than philosophy is based on faith. Both are kind of “up in the air,” because neither religion nor philosophy can be “proven” – how do you know, for instance, that other people exist and you are not the sole being in existence, dreaming everyone else? Or that you’re not just plugged into the Matrix? What happens if you “wake up”? Of course, it sounds absurd, but it is impossible for you to prove for certain – you’re relying on faith that the things you perceive are real.</p>
<p>Howbout we just stick to the science where uncertainties are answered by: we’re working on it.</p>
<p>Nope, in fact just the opposite, I felt that I’ve grown closer to God during my time in college.</p>