<p>I wasn’t generalizing everyone opposed to the war as hating their country, just mini. Mini has repeatedly made it clear that he/she is a communist who hates America and the brave American’s defending our freedom everyday.</p>
<p>Mini is friends with Bill Ayers; at least he has said as much in his posts. As for Petraeus and the lost equipment in Iraq, I found this account in a Washington Post article:</p>
<p>"…The GAO reached the estimate of 190,000 missing arms – 110,000 AK-47s and 80,000 pistols – by comparing the property records of the Multi-National Security Transition Command for Iraq against records Petraeus maintained of the arms and equipment he had ordered. Petraeus’s figures were compared with classified data and other records to ensure that they were accurate enough to compare against the property books.</p>
<p>In all cases, the gaps between the two records were enormous. Petraeus reported that about 185,000 AK-47 rifles, 170,000 pistols, 215,000 pieces of body armor and 140,000 helmets were issued to Iraqi security forces from June 2004 through September 2005. But the property books contained records for 75,000 AK-47 rifles, 90,000 pistols, 80,000 pieces of body armor and 25,000 helmets.</p>
<p>A military commander involved in the program at the time, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the report, acknowledged in an e-mail, “We did issue some items, including weapons, body armor, etc. to new Iraqi units that were literally going into battle.”</p>
<p>But, the commander argued, “there was, frankly, not much of a choice early on: We had very little staff and could have held the weapons until every piece of the logistical and property accountability system was in place, or we could issue them, in bulk on some occasions, to the U.S. elements supporting Iraqi units who were needed in the battles of Najaf, Fallujah, Mosul, Samarra, etc.”</p>
<p>The GAO plans to look for similar problems in the training of Afghan security forces.</p>
<p>During the Bosnian conflict, the United States provided about $100 million in defense equipment to the Bosnian Federation Army, and the GAO found no problems in accounting for those weapons."</p>
<p>This looks like, to me at least, Petraeus did the best he could under the circustances, which was being understaffed and undersupplied, probably cause Rumsfeld believed in conducting war on the cheap. When Clinton was at the helm, the Bosnia conflict apparently ran much more efficently.</p>
<p>Mind you, I don’t think we should have ever invaded Iraq to begin with, and I think Rumsfeld and Cheney were almost solely responsible for the debacle that has ensued, but I have read a lot of stuff on Petraeus, and his counterinsurgency strategies have been a lot more successful than anything else that’s been tried since this whole mess started. How Mini can hold Petraeus responsible for the upper class fleeing Iraq or ethnic cleansing by the various militas boggles the mind.</p>
<p>“He is currently presiding over ethnic cleansing of an entire nation. Between July and October 2007 alone, 600,000 individuals - most of them pro-Western, many of them Christian - were forced into exile, according the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, as part of a deliberate policy to “quell sectarian violence”. Entire neighborhoods were walled off, using U.S. money and U.S. contractors. This is HIS policy - rubber-stamped by our current yoyo of a President.”</p>
<p>The 600,000 individuals were not being exterminated or forced out by US troops–they were fleeing the violence caused by the sectarian strife that is ripping apart Iraq today. The main reason that the United States is in Iraq is not to kill or force out the Iraqi people, but to try and keep the Sunnis and Shiites from killing each other. The US military has tried to prevent suicide bombers from using cars to accomplish their goals by (among other things) creating concrete barriers to separate neighborhoods and keep the areas safe. Whether these measures are effective or not is perhaps cause for argument, although casualties are down in recent months (certainly in part due to the Mahdi Army’s cease-fire).</p>
<p>General Petraeus was not the one who brought us into the war in Iraq. It is not his fault that the Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other. The job is far from easy–the responsibility is heavy and there is no clear victory to be had. I don’t believe that he deserves to be mocked and derided by civilians. I’m not sure that you or I or anyone on this forum could do the job any better.</p>
<p>I hate it when people impugn the patriotism of others, whether their name is Jeremiah Wright or Petraeus. So I’m bowing out of this discussion. Carry on.</p>
<p>Yeah, impugning another person’s patriotism has got to be one of the most obnoxious, alienating tactics in political discussion. I am 50 + years old and had never encountered this kind of insult before the George W. Bush administration. I love my country but am deeply distressed about what it has wrought overseas. My God is generally a benevolent one, but I do think (S)He will d*** America for the pain and suffering it inflicts. “We didn’t realize what would happen” is not much of an excuse.</p>
<p>On a different note, it seems like every time I leave town, Obama gets into some kind of trouble. In March, I returned home from Mexico and everyone was talking about “The Speech.” Earlier this month it was “bittergate.” I am happy to stay at home until after the election . . . please advise!</p>
<p>Wow has this thread taken an odd turn. Wasn’t this about endorsements for Obama? I thought that’s what I posted. Ahhh, politics.</p>
<p>“The 600,000 individuals were not being exterminated or forced out by US troops–they were fleeing the violence caused by the sectarian strife that is ripping apart Iraq today.”</p>
<p>They were forced out, between July and October, with American troops (presumably under the AKLCS’ orders) standing by on the street corners as the American-backed ISCRI - the Iraqi government’s “militia” – threw people onto the streets, with American troops (also presumably under the AKLCS’ orders) manning the checkpoints as the refugees left, with American military (under the control of the AKLCS) making decisions about where the new walls were to be put up, with American money paying for them, and with American contractors doing the work.</p>
<p>George Bush made NONE of those decisions.</p>
<p>And how 'bout Bruce Springsteen endorsing Obama.
yeah Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce.</p>
<p>From “The Boss”:</p>
<p>Dear Friends and Fans:
LIke most of you, I’ve been following the campaign and I have now seen and heard enough to know where I stand. Senator Obama, in my view, is head and shoulders above the rest.
He has the depth, the reflectiveness, and the resilience to be our next President. He speaks to the America I’ve envisioned in my music for the past 35 years, a generous nation with a citizenry willing to tackle nuanced and complex problems, a country that’s interested in its collective destiny and in the potential of its gathered spirit. A place where “…nobody crowds you, and nobody goes it alone.”
At the moment, critics have tried to diminish Senator Obama through the exaggeration of certain of his comments and relationships. While these matters are worthy of some discussion, they have been ripped out of the context and fabric of the man’s life and vision, so well described in his excellent book, Dreams of My Father, often in order to distract us from discussing the real issues: war and peace, the fight for economic and racial justice, reaffirming our Constitution, and the protection and enhancement of our environment.
After the terrible damage done over the past eight years, a great American reclamation project needs to be undertaken. I believe that Senator Obama is the best candidate to lead that project and to lead us into the 21st Century with a renewed sense of moral purpose and of ourselves as Americans.
Over here on E Street, we’re proud to support Obama for President.</p>
<p>Marite, you have to excuse Mini. He has been sneering at any misfortune comes the United States’ way for a long time. He’d sniped at any cost the US have to pay in defense of freedom. It’s amazing how a person like that once held a US gov’t post.</p>
<p>I just posted the following quote on another thread but think it also appropriate for here. Iraq is not a misfortune that came our way, it is a misfortune, debacle and catastrophe we brought upon ourselves. Even Dick Cheney knew this back in 1994 but somewhere along the line we’ve empowered a group of maniacs and have stood by and allowed this insanity to happen. Petraeus is just their latest yes man. He had the option not to involve himself in this and refuse the assignment or resign, as others have done, following the courage of their convictions rather than following along in blind obedience. Oh yeah and from our current vice president, HIS words back in 1994:</p>
<p>"Because if we’d gone to Baghdad we would have been all alone. There wouldn’t have been anybody else with us. There would have been a U.S. occupation of Iraq. None of the Arab forces that were willing to fight with us in Kuwait were willing to invade Iraq.</p>
<p>Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off: part of it, the Syrians would like to have to the west, part of it – eastern Iraq – the Iranians would like to claim, they fought over it for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey.</p>
<p>It’s a quagmire if you go that far and try to take over Iraq.</p>
<p>The other thing was casualties. Everyone was impressed with the fact we were able to do our job with as few casualties as we had. But for the 146 Americans killed in action, and for their families – it wasn’t a cheap war. And the question for the president, in terms of whether or not we went on to Baghdad, took additional casualties in an effort to get Saddam Hussein, was how many additional dead Americans is Saddam worth?</p>
<p>Our judgment was, not very many, and I think we got it right."</p>
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<p>Oh please, how incredibly hyperbolic. Show me where mini has said he “hates America” or our troops. He is critical of US Foreign policy, no doubt about it. But I see no indication that he is a “communist”. I’ve always gotten the impression that he loves this country very much, but is mightily distressed by what he believes are the ways some entities, in the name of our government, work to distort and/or otherwise destroy the principles that make us a great nation. I may not always agree with his views, but just because he has the audacity to take seriously our constitutional right to openly question government, does not mean he is “un-American”. If you think the fact that Barack Obama doesn’t wear an American flag lapel pin is compelling evidence of a “lack of patriotism” on his part, then you probably also think Joseph McCarthy should sit in the pantheon of “Great Americans”.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>“Mini has repeatedly made it clear that he/she is a communist who hates America and the brave American’s defending our freedom everyday.”</p>
<p>Excuse me, but there isn’t a single American in Iraq today who is “defending our freedom”, and never was. That’s the reality, and that’s what is so sad. And anyone who can’t cotton to that reality is a truly a part of the “Hate America” crowd. You have weakened our defenses, you have made my family, my children, my community, and my country LESS safe; you have squandered my country’s treasure that so desperately needs it; you have helped pollute America’s reputation in the world for a generation to come. In the process, you have taken five million Iraqis, one-fifth of the country’s population - the majority of them pro-Western, many of them doctors, lawyers, engineers, and teachers - made them homeless, and recruited them to join you in your “Hate America” campaign.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I spend my time planning services (with no resources from the “Hate America” crowd, I might add) for thousands of Iraq occupation vets returning with traumatic brain injuries and PTSD who are being shunted aside by the VA. (one of whom, by the way, age 22, with a 15-month tour of duty under his belt and winner of an Army Commendation Medal, was arrested in my neighborhood Thursday, having committed 3 residential burglaries, with methamphetamine in his pocket and a loaded 38 in his belt, having been thrown out of the VA, where he had sought services, like a piece of trash.)</p>
<p>Is that all you’ve got? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Meanwhile, every major newspaper in Pennsylvania has now endorsed Obama:</p>
<p>[Greg</a> Mitchell: Obama Out of Touch With Pennsylvania? Every Major Paper There Backs Him - Politics on The Huffington Post](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Obama Out of Touch With Pennsylvania? Every Major Paper There Backs Him | HuffPost Latest News)</p>
<p>Talking about reverse thinking. No wonder liberals got it wrong every time. Not every vet returns home commits felony. And it seems like you, Mini, is on the side of the vet who decided to buglarize homes back on US soil with the purpose of taking what did not belong to him. You are so readied to excuse him with PTSD. Liberals got their hearts in the right place but their brains elsewhere.</p>
<p>Enjoy your flag pin. (even if you do think it necessary to diss the vets. That’s standard fare for the Hate America crowd.)</p>
<p>If you want to know how well or how badly our gov’t is treating the vets, just read Doonesbury. He seems to be doing a good job of getting out all sides of this issue and I think he has received several awards from vets groups for fully airing out the VA hospital problems among other things. The guys in the sandbox seem to like him.</p>
<p>Thank you mini for working with the vets where you live. I appreciate hearing that. While I don’t always agree with you, I stil think your calling the invasion a “Feith based initiative” a classic.</p>
<p>It’s not just the VA hospitals. For the most part, the national guardsmen can’t access treatment at the VA, don’t live near the VA, and have difficulty spending as much as 90 days near a base with a VA determination office in order to qualify for a medical disability. The Hate America crowd that insists our troops are “defending our freedom” in Iraq could care less that they are making families and entire communities right here less safe.</p>
<p>Al-Qaeda has never had a bigger booster than George Bush. And Al-Qaeda in Iraq has never had a greater source of material support than the AKLCS. But I’m glad that the Hate America crowd that supports them can take comfort in their flap pins. When it comes to “supporting the troops”, they have an awfully funny way of showing it.</p>
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<p>Ah come on, Mini. Don’t you know that all you need to prove your patriotism is wear that pin proudly on your lapel?</p>
<p>I prefer supporting Americans to supporting “America”. If that makes me “unpatriotic”, I can live with it. </p>
<p>The Hate America crowd does neither.</p>