Right, I understand that, but the deduction phases out over a certain level of income from some businesses like doctors and lawyers, but not other businesses like architects, engineers, real estate developers and businesses with a large payroll. Why? And why did real estate developers get moved from losers to winners?
This is an enormous windfall for real estate developers, compared to both the current situation and previous versions of the bill. Why was it inserted at the last minute?
I can think of one reason that trumps all others. Can you?
I’ve finally run the numbers and realized that our taxes will increase. Aren’t we the lucky ones! Basically we are in the same bracket, with the same bracket for interest income, will not be able to itemize because of the SALT loss, and are losing out by having a dependent child who is over the age of 16 (loss of personal exemptions).
I wouldn’t even mind paying more if it were for a good cause like reducing our hideous rate of poverty, but it isn’t.
I was looking for an exculpatory story. Kleptocracy isn’t exculpatory.
@greenwitch, you mean you don’t like being a part of those who will be contributing to the $3 1/2 Trillion in tax increases so corporations and those earning over $1 Million can get a total of $5 Trillion in tax cuts? Not very patriotic of you. 
Has anyone seen a calculator pop up yet where we can run numbers? Y’know, to figure out how much “winning” we’re going to have with this monstrosity.
I want to see a spreadsheet for the change in the conference bill that allows real estate developers a 20% deduction in their taxes. How many millions of dollars do people directly involved in this bill and their families, i.e. members of Congress who will vote for this bill, plus the President, plus their families, gain from the change? And why was it inserted in the bill at the last minute?
Thanks for that summary of the tax changes. DH will be fully retired in early 2018, and we were planning to convert traditional IRAs to Roths over the next several years. Not being allowed to recharacterize will make doing that more complicated. We may have to wait til the end of 2018 to get a better handle on how much we can convert without bumping up to a higher tax bracket.
@romanigypsyeyes, I’ve seen a couple good calculators, but they all seem to assume that what counts as taxable income will remain the same, which for some of us is pretty certain to not be the case.
An update from the tax professionals on how people will game the new tax proposal: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3089423
@dfbdfb oh that’s a good point…
Oh snap:
“Chairman Hatch’s letter is an exploration of an alternative tax universe not previously known to science,” Edward Kleinbard, former chief of staff of Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation, told IBT.
Is the senate even dealing with this today?
Last I saw the House was expected to vote on the bill tomorrow. If passed, it would then go to the Senate (maybe late Tuesday or early Wednesday).
And they are voting with no discussion? Gotta love that this is how some folks think representation should work.
They’ll have a pretend discussion.
What discussion are you expecting them to have? If they have the votes, what is the point of discussing it? Often times “discussions” are had in empty or near empty chambers.
I expected them to consult people who know what they are doing, to understand the effect of the laws they propose to pass. I expected them to explore the interactions of the various provisions. I expected them to tell the truth about what they are doing.
In particular, I expect them to listen to the tax professionals who are saying, “If this bill becomes law, I will advise my clients to do X to avoid paying taxes.” I then expect them to explain to us why X is a good outcome.
But they are doing none of these things. I guess they’re happy stuffing money into their own pockets and their donors’ pockets.
If I didn’t know better (and in particular know that parents are making many of the posts in this thread), I would guess that most of the posts in their thread over the past several weeks are young kids with little experience about how all of this works. You expect them to tell the truth? Seriously? On what basis would you possibly expect that having seen any of these folks in action of the past several decades? And I would say more but experience tells me it would be deleted.
Some of us haven’t given up on the idea that lawmakers should be truthful. That democracy should be representative of the will of the people. Silly us. We forgot we’re now living in Putinland…