<p>This thread is an interesting contrast to one in which the OP asked if it was OK to send her recent high school grad off to Paris for a week accompanied only by one of her girlfriends. The vast majority of posters thought there was nothing wrong with this and assured the OP that Paris was perfectly safe (except perhaps for pickpockets). I wouldn’t compare Philly with Paris, but I would note that I have been in neighborhoods in Paris that make the Italian Market area look like Society Hill in comparison. Fact is, there are places you don’t want to go in any large city.</p>
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<p>I’m sure they know more than I do about this and are most likely correct. I was referring to kids who are distractedly talking and not paying attention to their surroundings. And that goes double for drivers!!</p>
<p>Oh, and back to the topic, FWIW: [Campus</a> and city crime rates decrease - News](<a href=“http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/06/19/News/Campus.And.City.Crime.Rates.Decrease-3383558.shtml?reffeature=htmlemailedition]Campus”>http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2008/06/19/News/Campus.And.City.Crime.Rates.Decrease-3383558.shtml?reffeature=htmlemailedition)</p>
<p>DS is in Boston. The other day he told me two “teenage punks” were “mad doging” him. He was laughing. Apparently that means they were staring him down and wanted his ipod. He is a mixed martial arts guy, gym rat and a big guy. He gave them a look and they backed down. Definitely pays to be aware of your surroundings at all times and not be alone unless you know you can back yourself up.</p>
<p>Nicely said Hanna.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/453299-robert-morris-u-students-murdered.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/453299-robert-morris-u-students-murdered.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/451364-duke-university-grad-student-murdered-last-night-lived-off-campus.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/451364-duke-university-grad-student-murdered-last-night-lived-off-campus.html</a>
[The</a> Badger Herald - UW junior found dead in Doty Street home; killer still at large](<a href=“http://badgerherald.com/news/2008/04/03/uw_junior_found_dead.php]The”>http://badgerherald.com/news/2008/04/03/uw_junior_found_dead.php)
[Fatal</a> stabbing of UC Berkeley student reveals two worlds within one city - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-berkeley5-2008may05,0,3890778.story]Fatal”>Student's slaying reveals two worlds in Berkeley)
[FOXNews.com</a> - UNC Chapel Hill Student Body President Found Shot to Death Near Campus - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335708,00.html]FOXNews.com”>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335708,00.html)
[Outrage</a> in Newark after murder of 3 students - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-06-newark_N.htm]Outrage”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-06-newark_N.htm)
[Teen</a> Accused in Grad Student’s Death|NewsChannel 8](<a href=“http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0408/509423.html]Teen”>http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0408/509423.html)</p>
<p>To add to the above post, there were 2 people shot near the Pitt campus last night at 2:30 AM. I worry, with a daughter heading off to an urban campus in August, but it can happen anywhere.</p>
<p>The Zabel killing is an horrific tragedy that tugs at the heart and shocks the senses. It is also a story that rivets the attention of the media and the public because of the sensationalist news value on one hand and the painful senselessness of his death on the other.</p>
<p>However, to proclaim Philadelphia as an unsafe place for students to live and go to school, for young professionals to live and work, represents either an hysterical sensationalism of a whole other sort or a superficial view of the city, perhaps both. The reality is that more than 145,000 college and graduate students live, go to school and play in center city philadelphia. You have Temple University, Drexel, Penn, University of the Arts, Moore College of Arts, The Art Institute of Philadelphia, University of Sciences, Curtis Institute, Academy of Vocal Arts, Pierce Junior College, Philadelphia Community College, various culinary institutes, Hanahmen Med School, Jefferson Medical School and others I’m sure I left off the list, all located within the confines of center city Philadelphia and its surrounding neighborhoods. Add to it the 10’s of thousands of young graduates who obtain employment in Philadelphia. Go do the research; as another poster has commented, the likelihood of being a victim of violent crime is substantially less than the likelihood of having a motor vehicle accident. It is the exception, not the rule, that a college, graduate student or young professional will be the victim of a violent crime on the streets of Philadelphia.</p>
<p>Obviously that is not to say that it can’t and doesn’t happen. That’s not to say that there are not neighborhoods where shootings and murders of innocent bystanders occur because of problems endemic to those neighborhoods. That’s not to say that random and senseless acts of violence can’t occur in neighborhoods where one would not expect it. And when these things do happen, it compels our attention and shocks our sense of decency, often causing feelings of doubt and insecurity about the community in which we live and work. However, the reality is that with the exercise of common sense, knowing what areas are safe and which are not, following common sense safety precautions even in safe neighborhoods, the chances of ever being the victim of a violent crime are slim. And the reality is that Philadelphia as a community and with a new vitality ushered in by the new mayor and his administration, has a renewed sense of purpose and commitment in addressing the prevention and underlying causes of these sad and unfortunate events.</p>
<p>Philadelphia is a vibrant and dynamic place for students and young professionals to live, go to school, work and play. For those who really spend their time in the city, you can see it every day. That’s not to be naive about the problems that do exist, and there are many, but to broadly paint the city as a cesspool of violence simply begs reality.</p>
<p>It is the exception, not the rule, that a college, graduate student or young professional will be the victim of a violent crime on the streets of Philadelphia.</p>
<p>But if you look at major cities, where students may attend school- Philly seems to be the top city re: murder rate.
[There’s</a> no evidence that banning guns cuts crime | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/25/2008](<a href=“http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/20080525_There_s_no_evidence_that_banning_guns_cuts_crime.html]There’s”>http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/20080525_There_s_no_evidence_that_banning_guns_cuts_crime.html)
[Graduation</a> & gunfire: Student shot in back minutes after ceremony | Philadelphia Daily News | 06/18/2008](<a href=“Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey News”>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey News)
[2</a> killed, 3 injured in shootings across city | Philadelphia Daily News | 06/18/2008](<a href=“http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080618_2_killed__3_injured_in_shootings_across_city.html]2”>http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080618_2_killed__3_injured_in_shootings_across_city.html)</p>
<p>I do not agree with the philosophy that since often those who are killed are not college students- it isn’t relevant.</p>
<p>I would agree that daily life may require more vigilance in a city, to keep yourself and your belongings safe-but it shouldn’t require heroic measures.</p>
<p>Another bit of advice: I have the security phone number of my daughter’s school on the refrigerator. If she calls me at night while she’s walking from campus to her apartment or car, and G-d forbid anything happens, I can call security from 1200 miles away. She always starts the conversation telling me where she is and where she’s headed. 911 wouldn’t do me or her any good from here.</p>
<p>No where did I say that “since often those who are killed are not college students - it is not relevant.” It obviously is. It is equally relevant that the vast bulk of the killings in Philadelphia occur in particular neighborhoods which have clearly identifiable community, socioeconomic and family issues that cry out for attention. The resources of the city must be directed to finding solutions to the underlying problems while providing immediate relief through responsive and effectivet policing and law enforcement efforts. And in fact that is occurring. There has been a 20% drop in killings so far this year, something that is extremely encouraging about the renewed efforts of the new administration.</p>
<p>At the same time, there is a very lopsided picture of Philadelphia which gets painted in the reactions of many posters on this Board. And since this Board is called “College Confidential” and most who visit take the info here, including many threads on the “Parent Cafe”, as relevant to questions and issues concerning college, the experience of students and the quality of their lives in Philadelphia have particular relevance to the purpose of this Board.</p>
<p>And the reality is, notwithstanding the problems which do exist, the city is not a war zone, despite how some may choose to depict it. The reality is that hundreds of thousands of residents, including students, go about their daily lives without coming into contact with violence. Hundreds of thousands enjoy on a daily basis all of the superior social, cultural, artistic and other resources and opportunities the city has to offer without becoming victims of any crime, let alone violence. The reality is that for hundreds of thousands, Philadelphia is an enriching, rewarding and enjoyable city within which to work, study and play. Having attended Temple’s law school, having a daughter who both attends a college and lives in center city and a son for whom the city is part of his playground, having maintained my office in center city for the past 30 years, having spent time in a broad variety of neighborhoods, good and bad, and coming in direct contact with a wide scope of experiences, I think I have a pretty good realistic understanding of what life in the city is all about. I find it ironic and telling that those who are the loudest to condemn the city either don’t live here or have convinced themselves that it is necessary to live in fear. To the former, I say frankly you really have no direct knowledge on which to base your opinions. To the latter, it is a shame you have chosen to embrace the negative at the expense of all the positive that is there to enjoy. I hope your lives are not as dyspeptic and jaundiced as your words. Having visited, worked and lived in many cities on the east coast, it would be a real shame if students considering schools in Philadelphia went elsewhere because of your blinded vision and as a result missed the wealth of experience and opportunity that Philadelphia offers students.</p>
<p>A good way to really look at campus crime is through statistics that they all publish.</p>
<p>I think that Penn is a great school, however, on our campus tour, there were drunk/drugged men sitting on a bench in the middle of the tour route who were swearing loudly when we passed by, but also asking for money at the same time. That might be an unusual occurence, but it did not make me think highly of the campus environment.</p>
<p>This is a terrible story, especially considering the man just moved there to start a new chapter in his life, not end it.</p>
<p>Its pretty depressing that we’re at the point where walking home alone through the streets of a major city is considered a danger. Not to change the direction of this thread, but this really has to be addressed.</p>
<p>It’s been risky to walk through the street of many cities for decades. Where do you live?</p>
<p>In total agreement with Michael – having gone to college and grad school in Philly for 7 yrs fairly recently and having grown up right outside the city – it’s an outstanding place. There is crime, but almost all of it is centered in certain neighborhoods, certain socio-econ groups and involves drug related offenses. Thousands of students go to college and grad school there each yr and young professionals work there and they are not touched by random acts of violence in any way; they are able to go to school/work, take the subways, go out to clubs/restaurants, ball games etc. and live completely normal lives without having to worry.</p>
<p>Just because a sensational crime like this – in a iffy neighborhood – makes the news, there is no rational reason to start questioning Penn. Let’s be honest – if your kid got into Penn undergrad or Penn Med or Wharton – would you tell them not to go because of a perceived crime problem?? If you did, you’d be denying them a tremendous opportunity. But hey – less competition for everyone else who would do anything to go to those schools and wouldn’t run scared due to a few news stories!</p>
<p>Yes, he would easily have gotten into Penn, but opted for ED to Swarthmore, and a large part was the area that Penn is in. My other child got into Penn Law and opted to go elsewhere, due to not wanting to be in Philly. I am not saying that Penn is not a great school, but it is not a nice area in some people’s eyes.</p>
<p>In all cities, there are streets where you can walk alone at night and streets where you can not. In the best of cities, there are times of the night that you shouldn’t walk alone even if the streets are safe during other hours. That’s the reality of city life for virtually all cities. Which in no way, shape or form is to suggest that a victim is at fault, that’s obviously a twisted way to view any person who is the victim of violent crime. However, knowing the streets and neighborhoods is essential to making sound decisions that minimize or eliminate the risk of harm. In the instant situation, the route that was walked from 4th and South to Ellsworth and Passyunk requires going from one safe area to another through areas that have not been remediated or are in a state of flux. These are areas that are not safe to walk through late at night. It is very possible that the Zabel “picked up” a miscreant, during the more than 12 block walk, who followed him home at 1:30 am. That could be an explanation for a killing that occurred in what has been for many years a pretty stable and safe neighborhood.</p>
<p>The whole concept of walking home, minding your own business being considered a dangerous situation is really sickening.</p>
<p>MichaelNKat writes eloquently about Philadelphia. If this had happened around Johns Hopkins Medical School in Baltimore, I’d be writing about the greateness of my city, and spilling ink to differentiate geographnically that the med school is located differently from the central university, where the JHU undergrads attend, so nobody would worry excessively. </p>
<p>This tragedy is tp an individual. In such an unusual story, what lessons we can learn from it that apply to all urban areas for residents and nonresidents alike? What to say to our kids of same age, moving there or nearby, to be street-wise. Then realize nobody is immune from tragedy but we still want tips to reduce risk factors. </p>
<p>We’re assuming that this student was either ill-informed about the different neighborhoods, or making assumptions because of race or his rural hometown origin. We don’t know what happened because he can’t speak to us, but his story can. The question is: which messages do we take from such a story? </p>
<p>I feel all I can do is warn my kids about the basics of urban street safety, realize that more crimes are committed to lifelong residents of poverty areas than passers-through, determine to reduce the poverty neighborhoods acre-by-acre, person-by-person through education (as Zabel must have dreamed). </p>
<p>It is no condemnation of any particular city that it happened in Philly, and simply our obsession with colleges in general that even causes us to leap towards wondering if this applies to UPenn, which it really does not. The lessons learned are equally meaningful for students at CUNY (which I can envision) or USC (which I can’t, quite, but read about on CC so make parallels in my mind), maybe UChicago, namely: learn about walking through ADJACENT neighborhoods or areas when you leave the campus envrionment. Don’t not apply there, any more than someone wouldn’t apply to Cornell because there are dangerous waterfalls if you don’t walk carefully near them. A lot of life is risk analysis and risk reduction.</p>
<p>I would send my kid anywhere he needed to go to learn and work, and I have, from urban Israel to urban Harlem. If I felt general discomfort about all urban areas of America, I’d not send them near any city because kids explore. I’d try to teach them whatever parents teach their kids who live in the same neighborhoods, and take those precautions and more, but still hope that they live with eyes wide open. </p>
<p>I’m still considering why these kids are paid so little as teaching interns, because I have professional concern as a teacher and think they do essential work at the frontlines of poverty to work in public schools like this. Kudos to them. </p>
<p>Rest in peace, Mr. Zabel.</p>
<p>Every bank within 1/2 mile of my house has been robbed, repeatedly. I will ONLY use a drive thru. They are on a main road and these robberies happen in broad daylight. Armored guards were killed nearby last year. My neighbor had gold chains ripped from her neck a few weeks back as she was sweeping her walk. </p>
<p>And this is in a “better” neighborhood</p>
<p>You are right, no one should have to worry about being at risk when walking home minding their own business and what happened to Zabel is sickening. The sad thing is, however, across our country, both in our cities and in suburban and rural areas, there are places and times where engaging in such innocent activity does create a risk of harm. It’s endemic to our society and not unique to our cities, let alone 1 city in particular.</p>