Newsday: Paying high prices to bear the college burden

Parents Forum
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<p>car maintainance is only $1000? I assume this is for one car and you fix everything yourselves?
We also pay much more than that for food- household supplies- personal grooming etc-Since we don’t go out to eat I want decent food- vitamins are very expensive but work better than medication for arthritis etc</p>

<p>We also spend lots more than that for gas- two tanks a week for two cars is about $4,000 and we work in the city where we live</p>

<p>Unfortunately, we also have a crappy school district, I paid $800, for a psych test so that D could get accomodations, since the district refused to test her-
money for tutoring for years also really adds up and unfortunately I can’t help her. I also just heard that although last year- we paid $400 for older D to be tested ( by a grad student- so half the price) so that she could get needed accomodations on the GRE, the College board denied them, so I guess we will now need to spend teh $8,00 for * her * to be tested by a pysch who knows how to write up the eval.</p>

<p>And Clothes?
$1000 for clothes- is about what my H spends a year- and he wears levis- sweat shirts & tshirts to work.
But he also needs a new winter coat ever once in a while- and I did buy him some pants and a sports shirt at REI last year to wear to Ds college graduation.
( not to mention work boots- etc and his work clothes dont last long because the metal shavings really tear them up)
Cutting hair also requires nice- clothes and really good shoes- I don’t mean Bruno Magli, :wink: I mean supportive and stylish shoes, for standing on your feet all day! ( however, like many jobs that involve working with the public, you have to dress better than you earn)</p>

<p>My younger D also plays rugby- soccer and has been on track- she has actually worn the same shin guards she has had since she was 8! lol
( she can’t find any she likes) and soccer cleats aren’t too expensive- considering- just about $50- but for track for instance- there is $60 for the ASB card- then buy running spikes for sprinting- spikes for long distance and the uniform & running shoes for practice- then all the extra appts to the dr for her asthma- & trips out of town for meets- </p>

<p>This year she apparently is going to take up tennis instead- I think the raqquet she has had since she was 10 that she got from an aunt should work- but I am not sure- but I imagine it will involve some additional clothing purchases- almost 9% for sales tax adds up too and even our 2nd hand shops are so expensive!</p>

<p>It is really ridiculous-
Now that I have been itemizing out our expenses- I am shaking my head.
For instance we bought our house 20 years ago- it was a little more than twice our salary- ( we have had to take out an equity line- to pay for car expenses etc)- now it is supposedly worth $450,000 more than 6 times our before tax salary. ITs great if we sell it and move someplace cheaper- but since there has abeen a lot of deferred maintenance on this 105 year old house, Im not sure what we would get for it.</p>

<p>Ive also been doing our taxes ( on the computer another “need” not a want dammit!) & have decided I have to have another child or two- we really need the deduction! :)</p>

<p>The thing I see the difference between white collar and blue collar in general is that blue collar starts at roughly the same- perhaps even a little more than white collar. pretty good huh since you don’t have college loans to pay back.</p>

<p>BUt blue collar jobs are - really hard on the body particulary as you get older, are subject to at least as many relocations, off shoring, strikes and layoffs as white collar workers- and the income doesn’t go up.
Looking at our social security statement- we make $20,000 or so before taxes than we did 30 years ago.- I admit that 30 years ago, that included working 80 hour weeks, but the basic pay hasn’t gone up much while expenses have.</p>

<p>My nephew for example- got a job right out of college with a BA, working for the same company that H is, but he is making $60K, just about the same as H, who has been working there for 20 years.
H is smart enough to have gone to college- but he was raised to think that , that was for other people, and even though our kids are going to college, he doesn’t see that for himself.
Unfortunately, his job takes so much out of him, that he looks and feels much older than he is & I am afraid that he won’t last until retirement.</p>

<p>( he also still smokes - he has quit about 5 times- but each time it seems harder to get motivated to quit again- that is a huge expense- and even though he thinks it “relieves” stress, he knows that it actually makes it worse- I wish that one thing we could do- would be to force tobacco companies from adding chemicals to “improve” the cigarettes by making them more addictive)</p>

<p>But anyway- what I have always read is that while the very rich do pay a lot of money in taxes- I am not disputing that- but the ** percent** of their income that is taxed, is much lower than those who are middle and low middle income.
It is also especially difficult- although this is not PC to say :wink:
when you are in an income group that is just high enough * not* to qualify for things like free/reduced lunch. This allows families to be eligible for all sorts of special programs, camps, tutoring, classes, and lots of supports that a family making $10,000 more ( before taxes) could certainly benefit from, but can’t afford to buy on their own.
Not to say that I want to lower our income by $10,000- but they haven’t raised the maximum income for those things for years- and there are a lot of kids falling through the cracks- who with a little more help from the community, could get a better start.</p>

<p>Myself for instance- my family never could afford to have any lessons or anything for me, I had to work through high school at various jobs, just to pay for school clothes (didn’t have a car- I walked to school 3 miles- then to my job in the kitchen at a nursing home ,and got home about 10 pm).</p>

<p>After my father died at the end of my senior year, we were then low income & I qualified for a youth jobs program, making twice as much as I did at the nursing home ( which was really hard work), as a “secretary” for the parks manager- I got to wear a bathing suit at work ( it was on a beach) and I learned how to balance books!</p>

<p>It was a great program- but we really need to raise more funds so we can serve more families & Im not even talking about financial aid. (see I got back on track)</p>

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<p>Shouldn’t this post get back to financial aid, not an attempt to justify where you live? </p>

<p>I read what has become a justification for someone’s income vs. their cost of living. As I said it’s that way all over, income to expense is relative to where you live. It may cost less to live somewhere, but you make less too. </p>

<p>I don’t agree that FAFSA rewards people who spend all their money and punishes savers. I haven’t seen that and I imagine we can’t find out until we line two families up and compare.</p>

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<p>dstark, I agree about major medical. If it comes out of pocket, then it runs about 15,000 for a family 4 and keeps going up. </p>

<p>When you are teaching in the public school system, you might not need to put away for retirement b/c you get a pension when you retire.</p>

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<p>I still don’t see the big deal.</p>

<p>Those who have it (top 3%) are welcome to flaunt it, or not.</p>

<p>Those who have a little less (top 5% - 10%) can choose to revel in making it possible to flaunt it, or not.</p>

<p>Those who have have somewhat less can pray for rain, or do somethun else. </p>

<p>Those with the least can pray for the hundred-year flood, or do nothun at all.</p>

225

<p>lspf72</p>

<p>No more sleeping in the car at Bethpage, as reservations can be made over the phone. LOL</p>

<p>dstark</p>

<p>You are right on target across the board, but you are pushing back the tide here. I would hire you to represent me in a heartbeat.</p>

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<p>Barno, thanks. I guess I am pushing back the tide. That’s what I get for arguing with the Bs. (end of post 139) :)</p>

<p>It is explained at the link in post #188.</p>

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<p>Barno-- not on weekends – the walk-ons/sleep-ins get on the course first. If you’re very lucky with the redial you might get a decent time, but if you don’t get through in the first few minutes, you’re looking at mid-late morning already and then your day is shot. These guys are fast (pushy?!) players, and want to get out on the course early before things back up. For some people it is almost an obsession, and supposedly Bethpage is a great public course. Personally, I don’t get it, and would never have the patience to play a sport that ate up that much time. I do go there for the kids’ cross country meets, though.</p>

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<p>OH, for goodness’ sake, people. Again, the limit I was addressing as supposedly impossible to attain was living under 65,000 for “basic needs”–not living high. Add in your high-priced retirement (which most people don’t have and maybe don’t need, see NYT article referenced elsewhere) and more medical (I’ve already included 9000), to my accounting and you still have a budget which would allow a person with a six figure income to pay for college, or make some choices. I’m pretty sure that most people in this country don’t have incomes in the top 3-5% (kinda by definition, huh?) , and yet somehow they are getting by.</p>

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<p>Garland, not everyone wants to just get by.
People have different values than you.
Some people would actually like to be able to pay for home maintenance.
Some people would actually like to go out and eat once a week and see a movie once in awhile.
Some people would like to have something for retirement. The $6,000 a year I mentioned is going to be peanuts in the future.
Some people may lose their jobs.
Have health issues. Pay more than $10,000 a year.
Have future obligations.
Costs that are larger than yours.</p>

<p>I’m not saying your way is wrong, but it is your way, not THE WAY.</p>

<p>The way financial aid is set up is SUBJECTIVE. </p>

<p>When something is subjective, those that don’t benefit may not like the way it is carried out.
In many cases, those people are right.</p>

<p>Many people say they are struggling with college costs. How about a little empathy? They may know what they are talking about.</p>

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<p>Dstark–I have written and erased several long answers. We will just have to see things differently.</p>

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<p>I don’t mean to be picking on you.</p>

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<p>"Dstark, have you ever given any thought to how those of us whose kids attend low-resource public schools “feel” when we see kids in wealthier communities have so much more in their schools? "</p>

<p>See, now, this I don’t get. I have one kid in an expensive private school and one in a predominantly black, very poor demographic (I mean very poor) inner-city public school, and the kid in public school has waaaaay more amenities, opportunities and STUFF. Between funding, grants, partnerships with private corporations, volunteers, etc., D2 is just totally in the gravy and boy am I grateful! Why doesn’t this happen where you are?</p>

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<p>"Bay, I have a lot of admiration for those who worked hard in school and on the job to put themselves out of FA range. I just wish they’d accept their happy circumstances. It’s hard to feel sorry for someone who is contemplating tapping their home equity credit line "</p>

<p>I’m one of those people with good income in a high cost of living area. I am happy and grateful for our circumstances because we worked hard and long to get here. Neither hubby nor I attended college, he made ridiculously low wages (less than $20K per year in NYC) up until 6 years ago (we’re in our 40s), I have worked full-time by necessity since my kids were 10 weeks old, and hubby works two jobs. D1 is going to a state school with a good scholarship because that’s where she wants to go, but if she had chosen something more expensive we would have paid with glad hearts that we FINALLY can. We don’t feel deprived because we don’t qualify for aid and don’t begrudge those who do. Our house doesn’t have much equity because we’ve only owned it for 2 years, but we wanted a real home for our kids to live in. I guess my point on this thread and others like this is that a dollar figure doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story, some people with large incomes aren’t rich and get tired of being sneered, and many of us are incredibly grateful that hard work can sometimes pay off.</p>

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<p>“I guess my point on this thread and others like this is that a dollar figure doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story”</p>

<p>Zoosermom, you would have saved me many hours if you wrote this a couple of days ago. :)</p>

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<p>"Zoosermom, you would have saved me many hours if you wrote this a couple of days ago. "</p>

<p>Thanks Dstark! Hubby and I are overwhelmed with joy that we can pay the whole thing for daughter’s college (she will get a job, though, and has had one for a year now). We never, ever, ever thought we would be able to. A couple of years ago Zoosergirl mentioned to an important woman in our church that she aspired to X private college and the woman actually sniffed at her and said “people like you don’t go there.” Hubby is a garbageman and he is old beyond his years, but willing to work like a dog for the kids. Like I said, we don’t want anything, but people like us shouldn’t be lumped in with the rich because we’re not. Rich people (and educated, professional people like some here) probably wouldn’t give a garbageman/stock person and admin the time of day. Now D2 is another story. She is super-duper achieving and will have different aspirations than D1. But we know now how to plan, prepare and apply, so we’re good to go!</p>

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<p>Way to go zoosermom!</p>

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<p>“I guess my point on this thread and others like this is that a dollar figure doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story”
It has been my personal experience that when the dollar amount does not tell the whole story, and the story is one that allows the college to consider these facts, they do. In 97 I brought two shopping bags of medical bills to a FA office!
dstark…
“Some people would actually like to go out and eat once a week and see a movie once in awhile.”
choice, can’t ask taxpayers to help you. Although I’d welcome a nice evening out if you’re buying. (g) </p>

<p>“Some people would like to have something for retirement. The $6,000 a year I mentioned is going to be peanuts in the future.”
Schools cannot consider your theoretical needs. </p>

<p>“Some people may lose their jobs.”
colleges take a job loss into consideration asap. it is not possible for them to consider any potential loss since ALL of us could be out of work, have financial ruin next year etc.
“Have health issues. Pay more than $10,000 a year.”
They will consider this with documentation. We’ve paid out over 250,000 in the past 15 years. they can’t count it. They can only count this year’s expense. Should my child get a free ride because in theory we could have savings for college or retirement but have a valid reason why not?
“Have future obligations.”
Unless dead we all will have future obligations. It is illegal for the schools to consider any year before or after the current one.
“Costs that are larger than yours.”
and… If you have a costs that are allowed, they do consider it.</p>

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<p>“It has been my personal experience that when the dollar amount does not tell the whole story, and the story is one that allows the college to consider these facts, they do.”</p>

<p>I’m sure that’s true, but I wasn’t really thinking about getting money for any situation we may face or have faced, but rather to have other posters understand that the statements some make about people with large incomes aren’t relevant to every poster. In other words, it’s not an absolute that a person with a large income is rich and whining.</p>

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<p>We already have a very progressive tax structure at federal, state and local levels. Maybe we have gone far enough with re-distributing wealth and we should all buy what we can afford and not buy what we cannot afford. That would include paying for college at prevailing rates. I suspect there would be a lot of whining with that approach.</p>

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<p>Here. Here. It is about time that those poor slobs with kids who have to go directly to work and can’t afford the community college are allowed to stop subsidizing the millionaires’ kids at the state u.</p>