Yes, she seemed to be casually dressed and likely just thought it would be just a quick word to the neighbors using the pool to quiet a bit. OK. That makes sense to me.
It is NOTHING like the falling in the gorilla pen situation. In this case both father and son showed remarkably poor judgement and self-control involving violence to someone else.
It is here for developments that don’t have full-time onsite property managers.
“…He did something really dumb and I believe he did not intend to hurt the woman - but yes it was stupid and he should be held accountable and punished in some way, but let’s not make this more than it is. He turned himself in. He had a responsible mother who helped him make that decision. He makes decent grades. He is not a lost cause, and could certainly learn from this and grow up to be a fine person. So just let it be.”
Why should the obnoxiousness and peril of his behavior be minimized? As far as I can see, he intended to intimidate and humiliate her, and maybe worse. Would his behavior have been acceptable in the classroom? For the life of me I cannot understand why excuses are made for such behavior, because minimizing the consequences could lead to further malevolent conduct in the future where someone could get seriously hurt.
I think that a restorative justice scenario would fully impress upon him the harm he did without derailing the rest of his life, giving him a real opportunity to make restitution and take what he did seriously.
Throwing the kid in jail is just going to produce more of the same, if not worse.
I am not at all suggesting to minimize the consequences. I said “it was stupid and he should be punished and held accountable in some way”. I never suggested that he get off scot free. I think he did something really dumb that ended up injuring a person and I feel he should be punished. He himself said he needed to be held accountable for his actions. But digging up dirt on his father was not necessary nor is the information found relevant to the kid’s actions and how or to what extent he should be punished. Which is what the poster of that information implied as in “Yes the kid is a horrible person for doing that, and by the way did you know his father is in prison for an act of violence too?” The actions of his father are in no way relevant to this matter so why even bring it up? Except to instigate prejudice against the kid. And also, the situation is EXACTLY like the incident where the kid fell into the gorilla cage because there were many people who were blaming the mother for not supervising the child properly. And then they started digging up dirt on the little boy’s father also, and he wasn’t even at the zoo that day! Blaming the actions of a child on past discretions of a parent in these two situations is not appropriate at all. Would it be reasonable for, say a member of this forum to make a mistake like a DUI, and then have the media post all the past discretions of their relatives?
Juvenile, playing around too much, stupid move. He should not have tried to pick her up and they both fell. Should not have listened to the crowd and throw her in. I think his mother came with him to face the law. Now compare the response to the “boys” who got their pledges drunk and did nothing for 12 hours as one fell five times and died from his injuries . Those boys, it’s the frat system, it’s the university not monitoring the boys, etc.
Prejudice is “his dad is a murderer he must be bad” - BEFORE he does something bad.
Parental history is often newsworthy. “He was valedictorian just like his mother”. “She got a medal for bravery just like her father”. “Third generation to go to into the navy”. Etc.
I am really quite taken aback by how some people seem to see this as an almost trivial event, what if this woman had drowned, after being knocked over like that, she could easily have had a head injury, she must be a fairly robust lady, for sure, she doesn't seem to have responded or been injured like an elderly person might by such aggression. What would make him even do such a thing? Of course he meant her harm. Otherwise he would have just been the usual lippy teen mouthing off. This is a serious assault, not a mistake or a dumb move.
People do dumb things. http://abcnews.go.com/US/bride-paralyzed-freak-bachelorette-party-accident/story?id=12163284
Yes, people do dumb things, but there have to be SOME consequences rather than, “Oh kids will be kids.” There was potential from great injury here, especially as the guy DROPPED her on the cement and then proceeded to toss her into the pool. Fragile older bones can easily break and paralysis could definitely have also been a possibility.
I’d vote for restorative justice, including some community service for this young man, maybe around people who have been badly injured due to “horsing around,” and maybe around frail seniors. If alcohol was a factor, perhaps rehab as well.
@HImom I don’t know of anyone so far in this thread, including me, who has suggested that he shouldn’t suffer any consequences. I’ve tried to make the point several times that I agree he needs to be punished for what he did. He himself feels he needs to be held accountable. I am 56 years old and I would be outraged too if he had done the same thing to me - I don’t think I would have bounced back as well as she did - I’d probably still be in bed moaning. But I am going to state for the last time and then not comment again, that I agree with you, restorative justice seems like a good idea for this young man. I do not believe,as some on this thread do, that he is a vicious animal and had evil intentions towards this woman. I believe he made a stupid impulsive unfortunate mistake. He did not intentionally drop her on the ground (he slipped and they fell), but he did not stop after they fell (because others were yelling at him to throw her into the pool) and he didn’t just toss her into the pool, but dragged her on the concrete to the edge and then tossed her. Yes, it was extremely bad behavior, and she could have been seriously injured, but there are far worse crimes that are committed each and everyday that make the news and I do not understand why this kid is being singled out as being the next Ted Bundy. And I certainly don’t agree with people adding comments about his father’s history and justifying that because “Parental history is often newsworthy” Please. That’s just plain ridiculous - the reason and motivation for pointing out his father’s history is as transparent as glass. It’s not relevant and the purpose was clearly to add fuel to the fiery condemnation of the boy in this thread and in the mainstream news. In the link I posted in #29, did anyone think the bridesmaid’s family’s history was newsworthy or even worth mentioning? Were there opinions voiced that she possibly made the bad choice to push her friend into the pool because of previous bad behavior/choices of her parents. No, of course not. That’s what I was addressing when I said “just let it be”. I didn’t mean to let the kid get away with what he did. It was that the comments were/are heading off on a tangent that is not pretty or appropriate and I could see it coming a mile away. I really hope CC closes this thread.
I wonder if he will be wearing the ankle monitor while playing in the basketball tournament.
@LeastComplicated, I agree with you on every point except wanting the thread closed. I want us to be able to discuss difficult things honestly. I first mentioned restorative justice not only because it sounds as if this would be an excellent case for it, but because I don’t think a lot of people have heard about it or realize what it entails.
I don’t see any posts comparing this boy to Ted Bundy or anyone comparable @LeastComplicated – you were the first to bring that up on this thread. I also interpreted the reference to his father differently than you did. When I read it I thought it was helpful information in that it suggested the boy might not have had a positive male role model in his life. It wasn’t a negative comment in my mind.
But why do people go on and on about how “wrong” certain behavior is and then qualify it with a big “BUT…?” You can always think of behavior that is worse or more extreme, but how is it helpful to bring that up to someone whose behavior you are trying to change?
If this were my son I would come down on him hard – there would be no “buts” or qualifiers. I would want no room for him to think it wasn’t all that bad. Truth of the matter is that this woman could have been severely hurt or worse and then his and her life would be ruined. How did he know that she knew how to swim or that she did not have respiratory issues or what if she hit her head on the pool wall during the toss?
Telling a young person behavior is wrong and then qualifying it sends a very mixed message. In my own opinion it does not really help the person in the long run. Restorative justice sounds like it could work - but he hopefully gets the message from the adults in his life with no qualifiers.
Having the best father/role model in the world doesn’t keep young people from making a stupid choice. Young people feel invincible and I don’t think he understood the harm he could have caused her. There is often some fool who thinks it is funny to throw someone in the pool during a party. There is no indication that he is a bad person because made a dumb choice. It is not like he got up that morning planning to harm someone.
Where did anyone label him as a “bad person?” See post #9 giving him credit for saying he needed to take responsibility for his own actions.
32 - ankle monitor? Really?
Is that a reality or a possibility in this case? I don’t know – no idea how they deal with this sort of thing in a criminal court. I think posters labeled the behavior as “bad” – and it was in my opinion.
Teen sentenced to home detention with ankle monitor.