One of my kids did her homework perfectly, cheerfully and without prompting, sometimes invisibly, the entire time she was in school. She often went above and beyond and had time to read for pleasure for hours every day. The other kid started panicking about the nightly homework the minute he walked in the door and he never got an assignment done without agonizing about it, worrying about it, being afraid he was doing it wrong, being sure that he couldn’t do it or would forget how to do it by the next day. His heart rate goes up just thinking about homework and he graduated high school in 2012. If you had proposed a no homework policy for the first kid I would have said, “What for?” and if you had proposed it for the second kid I would have said, “Thank God.”
Romanigypsyeyes, I think your point above is very well put.
Just to be clear: I was that student who always did my homework without prodding. I don’t remember 1st grade but I’d be mortified if I ever missed an assignment and I never, ever remember my parents pushing me to do it.
However, I have a completely different perspective after working with uninvolved parents and high-need students.
Then again, I am also a huge proponent of learning through play rather than worksheets at a young age. I think kids’ lives are much too highly regimented and that, I believe, often leads to a dislike of school and a squashing of creativity (clearly there are outliers raises hand). Personally, I wish we could switch more to a style like Finland’s school system where we don’t start formal education until a few years later. There could be schooling of a type for younger children but I don’t think forcing 6 year olds to sit in their seats for hours at a time is helping anyone. And yes, in schools like the one I worked in, there was very little time for play because the teachers were so worried about ensuring that their students were “test ready” and less interested in how they were doing. Making the 1st graders sit for hours at a time was torture for me and them. They were checked out an hour into school.
There’s a pretty good body of research that shows that homework, as it is typically given, does not increase learning. I’d rather the kids have the opportunity for other things, including doing “nothing”. That said, I was on the board of a private school trying to have a no homework policy and we discovered 1) there as to be some provision when kids don’t complete their work in class and 2) it just didn’t work at the high school level. Independent reading and writing just couldn’t all fit into class time. We did offer a longer school day with a build in study hall for guided practice. (Which differs from homework exactly because it is guided.)
This is a generalization, I know, and might be better for its own thread, but I often think boys have a harder time, especially in the elementary school years - a harder time sitting still, being neat and organized, following directions, completing homework. I see in some of your examples above that your daughters were “good” homework doers, neat, organized, good with time management. This was true in our family for the early education years. My son’s work typically was buried and crumpled in the bottom of his backpack. He could do it very competently when he made the effort but had very little interest in doing so. We were lucky to get a few teachers who “got” boys, one being a male teacher and 2 having had 3-4 boys themselves, but in general I don’t find the typical early childhood education is structured with boys in mind. One teacher was frustrated that my son wouldn’t sit when doing his work. I asked if he was disturbing others and not focusing on his work. Turns out he wasn’t - he just liked to stand at his desk while he worked instead of sitting. It bothered the teacher’s sense of order, I guess. I told my son about Leonardo di Vinci, Thomas Jefferson, and Winston Churchill, all who worked at standing desks. I bet that teacher thought I was a real PITA!
I have also found in my life that most of the males my family and close friend circle didn’t become lovers of reading until their adult years unlike the females who have always been active readers.
“he just liked to stand at his desk while he worked instead of sitting.”
My mom was a teacher and she always let the boys stand at their desks.
I agree that it is usually more difficult for the boys in elementary school. In general the girls are much more mature. I would ask my son what he did in school every day and he always said “nothing”. It was like pulling teeth to get any information. Meanwhile, my friends who had girls heard every detail and then some!
My cousins granddaughter just started nursery school a few weeks ago. She just turned two and is in the two year old group of about 6 kids. All the other children are boys. She came home from her first day and her parents asked her how she liked school. She said she didn’t like it because none of the boys could talk. She was very disappointed.
I agree with romani, I think that giving homework at such an early age really hinders the development of a kid’s love of learning. I think that it’s much more important to help kids enjoy learning early on so that they’re willing to do the hard work later, instead of instilling the fear and stress that many middle/high schools have about homework
You guys are bringing back bad memories. My younger son got in trouble when he was in second grade, for not finishing his school work in class. His teacher was REALLY upset with him, and either sent a note, or maybe even called me about it. We agreed that he would bring the work home over the weekend, and I would make sure he did it. So he spent some time Saturday gluing Santa’s beard on, and probably something else too. I could not believe what this “work” was.
I was okay with my kids doing homework in elementary school - practicing what they learned in school, writing, and reading. I never felt that the teachers sent busy work. We always tried to make it fun and I would challenge them to teach me. I would have them read aloud to me while I was cooking dinner and we always read together at bedtime. I did go back to work when both of my kids were in elementary school, so something had to go - I picked housework.
While I am against busywork in any grade level, I don’t agree with the complete no homework policy in elementary school.
For most students, the concepts covered in that stage need to be reinforced through repetitious practice whether it’s learning basic arithmetic concepts, reading and writing, some real basic grammar concepts, and even penmanship/cursive writing.
There’s also something to be said for learning how to deal with boring or otherwise unpleasant jobs/activities in the course of accomplishing one’s longer term goals.
Something which was reinforced I saw many undergrad classmates who attended schools with very lackadaisical homework policies and with attitudes that “they’re too good for busywork or anything boring”** starting to have issues in college even with my LAC’s admittedly generous assignment extension policies. Many ended up crashing and burning in college or barely graduated and had more issues in the working world due to that socialization and attitude. A few older undergrad classmates have had issues maintaining gainful employment for that very reason.
However, homework in the elementary stage should be limited so it doesn’t take more than 20 minutes or so and if it does, the teacher/admins should work with the student/parents so the child isn’t overwhelmed.
Incidentally, though my Catholic elementary school gave more homework than the local public school, many classmates and I were still able to finish all our homework in K-6 within 20-40 minutes while watching the afternoon cartoons.
As far as my parents and some neighbors concerned, this was a sign even the Catholic school were “lowering academic standards”…especially the neighbors who attended the same school just 20-30 years before. Then again, they also attended in an era when corporal punishment by nuns slapping hands with rulers for the most minor of offenses was still routine and strongly lauded by their parents rather than condemned.
Catholic schools in the '80s era NYC emphasized such areas more rigorously and often for all their students. A key reason why many working-class parents in my old neighborhood worked hard and/or encouraged their children to win scholarships to attend them over the local public K-8/12 schools.
** To many employers and more senior colleagues one may be working with, a prospective employee…especially an entry level one still in or fresh out of college with such an attitude is commonly viewed as quite entitled and not willing to “pay one’s dues” UNLESS he/she has the rare demonstrated skills in demand and can leverage them to the firm’s great benefit. In short, employees who are interviewed and have their resume/file placed in the circular file or in the case one financial services employer, make them the butt of lunchtime jokes.
From what I’m hearing from parents of current students and teachers currently teaching in the NYC public K-12 system, the K-8 system other than the few G & T elementary and junior high schools which are exceedingly selective has actually gotten worse curriculum-wise compared to when I attended or even students who attended before the '00s.
One demonstration is the increasing disturbing local news reports and comments I’m hearing from friends who teach in the local public community and 4-year college system(CUNY) and public school teachers I know currently teaching in the NYC system that the standards on the statewide regents exam has been seriously watered down. It is watered down to such a degree students scoring high 80s on regents in English and Math are finding themselves placed in remedial programs for those subjects in the CUNY system because they are struggling and flunking the regular college courses.
It’s shocking considering the regents even back when I took them were already considered exams for the LCD.
This concern is likely one of the reasons many parents in that Kips Bay elementary school were up in arms about the “no homework” policy.
The concerns are worse among recent immigrant parents who come from societies where there’s not only more homework in elementary school(sometimes ridiculously so), but also where the average curriculum is structured so they’re actually several grades ahead of even advanced US students. One case I know of is an older HS classmate who recounted he attended a regular public elementary school in the ROC(Taiwan) until 5th grade before emigrating to the US. Despite being enrolled in an advanced homeroom class, he didn’t learn anything new in math from 5th grade in Taiwan until well into his freshman year at our public magnet HS.
It is silly (the word I want to use is stupid) to not give kids homework. How do you think they would practice what they have learned in class. It would be like someone taking violin lesson and never practice what he had learned during his lesson. Homework helps students further learn what’s taught in class and sense of responsibility. What make you think a kid would suddenly be responsible and have the skills once they are in middle or high school if they were never taught before?
My kids at their private school had to take a whole year of Time Management course when they were in 6th grade. They were taught how to organize their notes, homework, calendar, and at the end of the course on how to write a research paper. Kids who entered the school later, never took the course, they were often behind the first few years until they learned how to manage their time better. What I am trying to say is that kids do not magically know how to do something when they become of certain age. There are many skills and lessons which need to be practiced over and over again before they become part of us. Some examples, telling time (I know we have digital now), multiplication table, estimation, writing. My kids had to write a lot more papers than their friends at public schools. They had smaller classes, so their teachers also had more time to read and give feedback faster than teachers at public school with larger classes. I would say one of the greatest skills my kids learned was to write well.
I don’t believe it is appropriate to give K-3 students hours of homework, but half an hour to an hour is not going kill those snow flakes. If some of NY parents couldn’t supervise their kids after school, maybe it would be more beneficial for the city to have more after school programs to help those kids with their homework instead of banning it completely.
I totally agree with this. Age-appropriate “homework” is great for kids. They learn to manage time. It would also provide a chance to relive the day and bring a satisfactory conclusion to the day. It’s stupid to have a blanket policy. 3rd through 6th graders are not babies. It doesn’t hurt to keep them busy.
I remember my youngest son coming home from school so excited that he now had homework like his brothers did. It was fun, reinforced what he was doing in school and let me know what they were learning so we could practice the same concepts at home in a fun way. He has a PhD now.
Excessive homework is bad. But short assignments that reinforce what they were taught in class teaches good study habits and responsibility. I have no problem with it. I would totally be against no homework and if my kids went to such a school, I would find some for them.
“From what I’m hearing from parents of current students and teachers currently teaching in the NYC public K-12 system, the K-8 system other than the few G & T elementary and junior high schools which are exceedingly selective has actually gotten worse curriculum-wise compared to when I attended or even students who attended before the '00s.”
How is it that I have cousin’s children in practically all elementary grades, cousin’s who are teachers in elementary, middle and high school (one is even a principle of a middle school) and the most our conversations consist of are, “how are the kids, do the like their teacher, etc.?” And the last thing the teachers want to talk about when we are in a social setting is school.
But, back to the topic. My son’s middle school had the time management class. Didn’t do him any good - but he was a lazy student back then. I also remember in 6th grade one of his homework assignments was to decorate his notebook. I was like, “are you kidding me”?
And this district is one of the top in NYS.
He went to private school in high school. He had much less every day homework then he had in public school. I believe it was due to the fact that classes were much smaller and they covered a lot more material in class. He also had, like Oldfort’s kids - a lot more papers to write and long term assignments. That is what helped him, imo, being able to handle college work where most often he only has a few papers and two exams per class all semester. There was also no regents required and they just announced last fall that they would not be giving Common Core exams, either.
When D1 was in third grade at at our local school, her weekend homework was to do a puzzle related to super bowl because it was a super bowl weekend. I am sure a lot of parents thought it was fun, maybe even creative. I told D1 not to do it because our family didn’t watch football and we weren’t going to watch it for the homework purpose. I sent a note in with D1.
IMO, many things in life is how you do it as much as what you do. I don’t see a problem decorating notebook. You can run down what you did at school while decorating. Kids can’t just sit and review. I am sure some homework assignments are stupid beyond help but you don’t fix that by banning homework entirely. In the third grade kids learn multiplication table. Don’t you think some extra work at home may help? Let me say it again. We spend the most money per student in the world. Our outcome is much less than the best. And yet our kids are so stressed out that they have to resort to drugs consuming enough to support a huge underground industry.
Put me in the anti-assigned stupid homework group. This doesn’t mean we just let our kids sit and veg every evening. However, it means it is up to us, the parents, to figure out what our kids need. “Homework” should really be tailored to the student and often it’s the parent who can best judge that. Our private school doesn’t give homework (e.g., worksheets) before 4th grade but if a child doesn’t finish all his or her work at school, well, that’s homework for the evening.
The really sad thing is by taking away recess, piling on the homework which takes away time for from free play, young children are actually learning less because often they learn via play. They learn how to negotiate among themselves, they learn how to problem-solve, they even learn how to count and divide (even see kids divide up a plate of cookies? - trust me, they learn this way before 3rd or 4th grade), and they probably even learn time management (if they know they have a limited amount of time to play, they usually try to figure out what they can play or do in an hour/half an hour/ 15 minutes)
So, my kids public elementary school was over at 2PM and they typically had thirty minutes to an hour of homework but that was not everyday. Occasionally there was a big crafty project which the kids thoroughly enjoyed and occasionally there was a big test and too many worksheets that were confusing and caused a few tears of stress. I’m fine with it all and think it was all valuable. They had recess. And, they had plenty of free time, play time, and organized activity time at home, too. Most parents will do nothing if nothing is one of the choices so the schools assign homework.
