<p>Zoozermon, I’m sure a lot of people in SI are outraged - just not the majority (see link in #70) </p>
<p>There is a tiny bright spot in all of this craziness. The fact that so many of you are beginning to get a glimpse of how we feel. For so long, we have been told that racism doesn’t exist & that we are being too sensitive or we need to stop pulling the race card. Finally, people are starting to listen.</p>
<p>^^ I just posted that in a thread on FB. I wrote:</p>
<p>“A couple of good things already have come from this, I think. One, there appears to be real, bipartisan outrage that doesn’t break along party lines or color lines. Two, I think those who didn’t understand where people like me were coming from on Ferguson now might better get our feeling that we knew that there would never be an indictment in that case and our anger/disappointment when that came to pass. The odds are simply stacked against some, and in these cases black men in particular.”</p>
<p>Grand juries that are getting it right. </p>
<p><a href=“http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20141204/43d47ac7-ca19-46ea-bdb0-3ae8500ec6a2”>http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20141204/43d47ac7-ca19-46ea-bdb0-3ae8500ec6a2</a></p>
<p>NewHavenCTmom, I think there are many of us on this board who understand this issue. Unfortunately, I think those who don’t believe these things happen and that there is no racism anymore - still don’t believe it. </p>
<p>“One, there appears to be real, bipartisan outrage that doesn’t break along party lines or color lines.”</p>
<p>I am a glutton for punishment and I regularly read a Conservative message board (I was banned after two posts years ago) but I still read it. I will not even repeat some of the things I have read about Eric Garner - but many believe he is to blame for what happened to him. </p>
<p>Grand juries almost always vote to indict except in the case of police officers.
<a href=“It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did | FiveThirtyEight”>It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did | FiveThirtyEight;
<p>^ Yes, I know that. I just wanted to point out that there are a few exceptions. </p>
<p>Jon Stewart’s take on the verdict. </p>
<p><a href=“Stewart Speechless Over Eric Garner Decision: ‘I Don’t Know What To Say’ (VIDEO) - TPM – Talking Points Memo”>http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jon-stewart-eric-garner-speechless</a></p>
<p>Oh, emily, I am sure there are, but other well-known conservatives have publicly denounced this non-indictment, and, for that, I am happy.</p>
<p><a href=“Conservatives Join Outrage Over Grand Jury Decision In Eric Garner's Death | HuffPost Latest News”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>I think that there is much, much more unity behind being appalled by this decision than in the Ferguson case. Even those who thought that the Brown killing was justified think this was way over the top. </p>
<p>More incidents like this makes me wonder whether this “system” could always be much better than some justice system which is run by “underground mobs.”</p>
<p>This is because any justice system can be rigged by those who have means to rig it.</p>
<p>I wonder whether this is true but I remember I read it before: In many communities, the job market in police (as well as firefighters) is to a certain extent exclusively “owned” by those who are “in”, meaning those whose families have some kind of connections to this “monopoly” could have access to this job market - so the black is “out”. (Since this is CC, I may make this analogy as well: It is somewhat like the job market of the Wall Street is in a certain degree “owned” by those graduated from some elite colleges.)</p>
<p>Agreed. I think that the Brown killing should have gone to trial for a variety of reasons, but think it highly unlikely the cop would have been convicted. But the Garner case was essentially a slam dunk, and for it to not even advance to trial makes the whole thing a farce.</p>
<p>Somewhat of a side topic, going back to shopping (or, essentially, existing) while black. My grandparents and dad grew up in Detroit (in the midst of white flight, they stayed put until his mom remarried and they moved to where his stepdad lived) as a white boy/man/woman. My dad thought he “got” the discrimination against black men until he took one of the kids that he coached in basketball shopping. Kid was a sweetheart but came from a s*** home and my dad took him to go get basketball shoes. </p>
<p>Needless to say, it was a real eye-opener for him. They went shopping in our community (mostly white) and the kid was very closely followed throughout the store by staff. When my dad was with him, he got sideways glances (I think) because he’s a white “dad” with a black “kid”. </p>
<p>This was years ago and I still remember my dad coming home furious about the whole situation. He called the owner of the store (who he had known for years and years) and the owner essentially said that he saw nothing wrong with what happened. (We’ve never gone back to that store.) </p>
<p>It still happens to me when I hang out with black friends in Detroit suburbs. I notice the glances, the more heavy scrutiny. It infuriates me but my friends just accept it as a part of life. They don’t even get angry any more because it’s not worth it. </p>
<p>I will never, ever pretend to know what it’s like to grow up black and I don’t know what the answers are. I just can’t believe that there is a substantial proportion of people who pretend that this doesn’t exist. It is disgusting and nothing will change until that is no longer the case. </p>
<p>/rant</p>
<p>Let me just say that I would like to thank the non-Black posters on this board that really listen with an open mind. For some reason folks think because we have a Black President that racism is over. I sometimes think that it has gotten worse. I can only speak for myself, but its nice when some folks get it. I dont go looking for racism under every rock, but it exists. Just because my family is middle to upper middle class doesnt mean I am immune to disparate treatment. And when we call it out, it doesnt mean we are crazy.</p>
<p>“I will never, ever pretend to know what it’s like to grow up black and I don’t know what the answers are. I just can’t believe that there is a substantial proportion of people who pretend that this doesn’t exist. It is disgusting and nothing will change until that is no longer the case.”</p>
<p>YUP.</p>
<p>I will add, though, that it will only change if we PUSH for change. All of us, people of all races and ages, together. </p>
<p>Someone obviously forgot to give Rush the “conservative talking heads talking point.” </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/12/03/quick_hits_page”>http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/12/03/quick_hits_page</a></p>
<p>I’m sorry, but I think there are way more people who think it was the victims fault along with believing there are reasons people of color are treated differently. </p>
<p>I’ve been on vacation since Thanksgiving and saw this video for the first time last night. I heard about the case on the news, but never really took time to watch the video. After watching it, I can’t believe that a prosecutor didn’t take this case to trial. It seems pretty obvious that the officer was choking the victim. I’m really horrified that a grand jury choose not to indict. I am someone who tends to be optimistic about the state of race relations in this country, but after this result in NY, I think my optimism is misplaced. </p>
<p>I am one who does not believe that the Ferguson case and this one can be put in the same category. I am surprised that the grand jury did not indict in this case, and from what I know and have seen on this case, I would have elected to indict had I been in such a position. I am curious as to what evidence was presented for such a verdict. I don’t beileve the Ferguson case should have even gone to grand jury. I support Officer Wilson in what he did, tragedy as it was that a life was taken. But 23 members of the grand jury elected to let the Garner case go. I’d llike to read what the experts feel are the reasons for this.</p>
<p>I am no huge supporter of the police. I’ve had to deal with lying police officers several times that caused a tremendous amount of trouble, time, money. I don’t have a lot of trust in them at all, and don’t consider them the cream of the crop at all. However, I do understand that a police force that is obeyed is necessary. What should a police officer do when someone resists arrest? Just let the person go. I am becoming nervous as to how the police will be able to react to those who are victims when their authority is being such that if I were a police officer, I’d probably decline to do much in certain areas due to the risk of things like this happening. I’ve heard murmurs of the sort around here too.</p>
<p>
Certainly a valid question. </p>
<p>In the last few years, more and more police departments have started making it a policy to stop car chases when they start to become dangerous. They realized that in most cases, the danger of allowing the suspect to escape was relatively small compared to the damages, injuries, and deaths (to suspects, cops, and bystanders) caused by high-speed car chases on their own.</p>
<p>I think we need to expand this to arrest procedures in general. Wrestling a guy to the ground with a chokehold has massive risks associated with it - if the suspected crime is something as small as selling singles, why not then just give the guy a summons? Is it worth the potential injuries to the suspect and the police just to bring someone in immediately? If it was a car chase, the answer would be no. Not being a car chase, I still think the answer is no.</p>
<p>I have a kind of opposite view of the Brown case and the Garner case to you, cptofthehouse. That is, I think both of them illuminate the way we think about police use of force against black suspects.</p>
<p>“If you can’t say No, you can’t say Yes.” That’s what we say about consent in rape cases: If the victim could not have refused consent, because for example she was unconscious or drugged or a slave, then equally, nothing she does or doesn’t do can be construed as consent. She can’t consent if she couldn’t have refused.</p>
<p>The same applies to grand juries deciding whether to indict police officers who killed black people. People who defend the Brown decision say, sometimes officers do kill black suspects unjustifiably, but the Officer Wilson doesn’t fall in that class. They say we should trust the process, trust the prosecutor and the grand jury to have gotten the right result. But we see, with the Garner case, that we can’t trust the process, that even in a most egregious, obvious case of misconduct, of, indeed, murder, the grand jury refused to indict. </p>
<p>If a grand jury can’t indict when they have video and audio of the murder, if they can’t say, No, this killing was justified, then they can’t say Yes, this other killing was justified. If they can’t say the Garner killing was murder, they can’t say the Brown killing was OK. If they can’t say No, they can’t say Yes.</p>
<p>This “cop” has a history of nasty stuff, and should at least be thrown off the force.</p>
<p>And you don’t have to be black, but being a big guy means you have less chance:
<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/opinion/perry-down-syndrome-death/”>Opinion: Justice for Down syndrome man who died in movie theater - CNN;