No More Marcus Welby, MD. Physicians In Private Practice Have Disappeared.

Having worked for many years on electronic systems used in by physicians and laboratories, I can see many drivers greatly increasing the amount of paperwork physicians office need to complete in order to be reimbursed for services. The following are all complex and time-consuming but are NOT part of the ACA:

  • Medical Necessity (CMS regulation, greatly complicated prior to Obama’s presidency)
  • ICD-10 (has been used internationally since 1994, was in the works in the US prior to Obama’s presidency)
  • Meaningful use (2009 HITECH act)
  • HIPAA (1996)
  • The jumble of complex and conflicting Medicaid and Medicare policies throughout the country (this, along with low reimbursement, is why many practices do not accept Medicare/Medicaid patients)

Some of these initiatives may have been rolled into ACA, or related to components of ACA, or just incorrectly stated as being part of ACA.

If you want silly regulations, google “ridiculous ICD-10 codes”. You’ll see things like:

  • Pedestrian on foot injured in collision with roller-skater
  • Swimming pool of prison as the place of external cause
  • Hurt at the library (as opposed to a different code, hurt at the opera)
  • Injury due to activity, laundry
  • passenger of special agricultural vehicle injured in non-traffic accident
  • burn due to water skis on fire

They sound funny, but if you don’t use these 10s of thousands of codes properly, your practice doesn’t get paid. Every time a new federal or state regulation is passed, it equates to an unfunded mandate on health care providers.

@InigoMontoya

Relative had her car parked in the driveway…back bumper actually overlapping sidewalk. A bicycle rider rode into her car. The kid fell, and I think broke an arm. Their medical insurance did a subrogation with the relatives car insurance. …to recoup costs.

Oh…and the kid was deemed NOT at fault for the damage to the side of the car…

Seriously?

WAYYYYY pre ACA.

I agree. I want to get in and out of there just as fast as the doc wants me in and out. I don’t want or need a Dr. Welby. The electronic record keeping is okay with me, especially if it simplifies my conversations with other partners in the event I need to deal with one of them on call, or if it flags a medication interaction problem, etc.

My personal favorite, having been in the medical testing industry, is that Medicare coverage of a laboratory test is not based on the state in which you live. It’s also not based on the state in which the doctor practices.

It’s based on the state where the lab is that does the physical test of the specimen

Since Medicare rules vary in different states, you could live in a state where the test is covered by Medicare. The dr. could assume the sample is going to an in-state lab. But there might be another lab that’s closer that’s out of state - and if the Medicare jurisdiction for that state does not cover the test, then you’re paying out of pocket.

Given that one set of samples could go to multiple labs (potentially in multiple states), makes it kind of hard to know if you can afford to get testing done.

It may seem harsh thumper but the car was blocking the sidewalk, which is illegal just about everywhere.

OTOH, I have a friend who was injured at work and had to file a worker’s comp claim. It wasn’t a serious or expensive injury but the paperwork was a nightmare. People would refuse to treat him because all the 2000 ducks weren’t in a row. Would this go away with single payer? I would hope so.

@greenwitch oh I totally understand about it blocking the sidewalk…but don’t people look where they are going? Guess not!!

We can fit two cara in our driveway if the first car is pulled up to the garage. I have had to ask my kids to pull up further into the driveway when visiting as the idea of not blocking a sidewalk seems lost on some people, including my relatives. :slight_smile:

The root cause of the expensive healthcare is lawyers and lawsuits over everything. One thing Congress and the President could do is to establish a Medical court (akin to the Maritime Court) that handles all claims and appeals on medically related issues. This would allow us to have judges who are experts in understanding the complexities of the law as it pertains to the practice of medicine. Hopefully, we could weed out the frivolous lawsuits and decrease the cost of healthcare. It is not the health insurance that is the problem, it is the malpractice insurance premiums brought on by these suits. The ACA has exacerbated an already difficult problem for doctors. There are more and more in our area deciding to take early retirement or to go into ‘consulting’ rather than to participate in a broken system. Single-payer will not solve the inherent issues. That system is more like a ponzi-scheme. Some do well and others pay through the nose for little or no care. For every instance of ‘no-worries’ you get ten that get no care or care is so late that it is pointless.

Decades ago the government changed Medicare payments in order to cut costs. Instead of paying for every hospital service they lumped things into diagnosis groups with the primary/first one as the determiner of payment amounts. The hospitals had nurses running around telling admitting physicians how to change their wording on diagnoses such as “heart problem x with hypertension” because it paid a lot more than “hypertension caused heart problem x” despite the exact same care given. My specialty (anesthesiology) wasn’t affected but I heard a lot in the doctor’s lounge about this. It was frustrating because medical accuracy was being suborned by bureaucrats.

Agree that healthcare should be left in the hands of the Drs. That said, it was expensive.
Monkeying around with the now all-but-dead indemnity insurance plans led to all sorts of strategies to cut costs. They tried capitation plans, where Drs were paid a flat fee per covered life whether or not the patient used it. But it was a disincentive to see patients and they tried to implement it with the chronically ill. Bad plan.

Kaiser’s HMO plan was started back in the 70’s IIRC. This is not new. And hospitals bought up practices decades ago, but it didnt work well (at least not where I live) and many Drs left and restarted practices outside the hospitals, but banded together in big groups. Then came managed care. More unnecessary and ridiculously pricey costs. And research showed it didn’t save any $- just shifted it away from patient care and into unnecessary bureaucratic layers.Some staff were given bonuses to cut costs (aka deny care). Impatient care then also changed (as wis75 describes) and it was no longer feasible to go see your patient in the hospital. You’d get them back after discharge. All this was waaaay before ACA so please stop blaming ACA.

I haven’t yet read all five pages of this thread. But I do want to emphasize this:

The paperwork and red tape come from two entities:

  1. insurance companies
  2. CMS.

Not ACA.

The onerous regulations being referred to are likely the CMS regulations. Those started getting tighter before ACA, around 2012 or so. CMS is the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. And of course insurance companies don’t make it easy.

It’s easy to blame ACA, and even people who know better will blame it because they want to get rid of it.

ACA is a law that mandates that insurance policies :
-cover certain “essential” health benefits
-do not discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions
-cover children under parents’ plan until age 26
-eliminate lifetime caps on reimbursement

All of the above means that MORE PEOPLE are covered and MORE SERVICES are covered than ever before. It is the biggest health insurance expansion since the 1960s. This increases doctors’ incomes because more people can go to the doctor.

Here is a really good synopsis of ACA:

http://npalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/NPA-ACA.Quick_.Guide_.for_.Physicians.041311.pdf

It started in the 1930s as a health plan for employees of specific industries. It opened to others in 1945.
https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/article/history-of-kaiser-permanente/

Kaiser hired a former professor of mine to take leadership of their Behavioral Medicine in SoCal in the early 80’s. Its when, IMO, it became more “main stream” (after the HMO act of 1973). This is an entertaining read: http://www.kaiserthrive.org/kaiser-permanente-history/#history. It was initially limited mostly to Calif and Hawaii, with some services added in Oregon, Colorado and Ohio.

Malpractice? Did someone say malpractice? The Incidental Economist’s Aaron Carroll just did a column on this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/upshot/real-malpractice-reform-investing-in-patient-safety.html?rref=collection%2Fspotlightcollection%2FHealth%20Care:%20Decoded

Here’s the video version, (on Healthcare Triage, which I recommend in general): https://youtu.be/FsiRmD33zAI

Bottom line? “Too often, efforts to fight undeniable problems in the malpractice system start from the assumption that there are too many cases, that they’re not “real,” and that we need to come up with solutions to limit them. But what the data suggest is that improving medical practices may be a more effective approach than passing new laws.”

Some large practices and/or HMOs have put an unreasonable burden on doctors to see a certain # of pts per day, and hardly give then time to read the chart. Often patients come in with one issue, but while they are there they bring up others. Its hard to meet the demand to see a large # of patients a day while still being able to maximize patient safety. Of course patient safety is a primary goal and priority. But so is is the health/sanity of the provider!

"The root cause of the expensive healthcare is lawyers and lawsuits over everything. "

While I don’t deny there is a certain amount of health care being practiced as CYA, the whole lawyers as the cause of malpractice insurance premiums soaring and a prime cost of healthcare has been debunked. Want proof? California had a big problem with malpractice rates soaring at a ridiculous rate every year, some doctors left practice because of it, and the standard claim it was because of the cost of lawsuits, that all these pain and suffering suits were hitting the companies hard, and California passed laws limiting things like pain and suffering and so forth…and the premiums continued to soar. We all hear about the large awards, but when analyzed the rate of such monster awards when you trace them down shows few ever stay that large, and very few even make it to a verdict.

Several financial publications (the Economist and the Wall Street journal) did analysis, and what caused those rates to soar was primarily a change in the way insurance worked, the dominant model for years was insurance companies collected enough from premiums to cover payouts, and they made their money investing the 'float, money they had but not been paid out. They changed their model in the decade after 2001, and changed to make it that they wanted premiums to give them roughly a 20% profit margin and not have to count on investments to make their profits , the markets had become too volatile, and this is true across the board both with malpractice and regular health insurance. Not surprisingly, malpractice rates

In terms of doctors leaving individual practice because of the regulatory burden of ACA, I think that is much like the claim that soaring insurance premiums were all the work of lawyers or the EPA is the cause of jobs going overseas, it is more trying to pin the blame on an easy scapegoat based on ideology then fact. As others have pointed out, doctors have been moving towards giant practices, these days often aligned with hospital groups, the same way that hospitals now are part of merged hospital networks, like Atlantic Health care in NJ, etc. A lot of it was paperwork, the hospitals could leverage their already large administrative staff to handle billing and whatnot. This trend started when doctors became part of health insurance networks, first through HMO’s then PPO’s when as part of that network they were required to file a ton of information. I am sure regulatory paperwork was part of this, but a lot of it was dealing with the health insurance companies as part of their networks, rather than as basically submitting a form for clients to get reimbursement.

The other factor is doctors are looking more and more to a regular paycheck from a provider network, rather than the fee for service based approach which in the past could be very lucrative, but thanks to being squeezed by medicare and also insurance companies, that is no longer guaranteed to be a good income model from everything I have read.

like most things in medical care, it is using the old “it was wonderful in the good old days, then “they” ruined it, whether the they is government regulations, the health insurance companies, their patients, etc”, it is looking for a simplistic answer when the answers are quite complex.

I have two young relatives in med schools – actually, one is doing her residency, and the other will start her residency next fall.

Both say that their education and experience (both are in school in rather impoverished areas) has made them strong proponents of ACA. Even the conservative one who never voted Democrat until 2012! Both were shocked at how many people went without sufficient care before the ACA. They agree the ACA has issues they’d like to see addressed, but are horrified at the thought it might go away.

I thought this was interesting, since neither was very political before, and, like I said, one was/is rather conservative but her ideas about health care have changed dramatically after seeing the needs first-hand.

Not wanting to get political, but I typed into the search bar for Health insurance co. CEO salaries and this came up: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-ceos-20170307-story.html

:open_mouth: :open_mouth: (:expressionless:

And here is a list of CEO Healthcare salaries from 2015 (couldn’t find more recent) http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payer/health-insurance-ceo-pay-at-big-five-tops-out-at-17-3m-2015 $14-17M. Outrageous.

I believe many states (including HI) have medical claims boards that ALL claims must be presented at before claims are allowed to proceed to a lawsuit. This has reduced frivolous claims.

It has always struck me as egregious that supposedly nonprofit orgs such as insurers and Us are allowed to pay their top execs 7 and 8 figure salaries and more.

It was not a complex issue for my wife closing her clinic at the end of 2016. Insurance companies cut reimbursement rates for primary care between 5% and 15%. Since her overhead burden was approximately 70% and climbing, it cut her pay in half. She now works for one of the hospital-owned primary care clinics. And she agrees with others, ACA helped her and her patients.

If anyone needs a CBC machine, I have one in my living room.