<p>when I had HPV it was 30 years ago, and since I was treated for symptoms then I haven’t had a reoccurence.
HPV is transmitted skin to skin no fluids required
<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-06-08-cancer-vaccine-qa_x.htm[/url]”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-06-08-cancer-vaccine-qa_x.htm</a>
The HepB though, I never even knew I was exposed to it, until my blood was tested-</p>
<p>Quote: “Who do you know that has smallpox? Mumps? Polio? I did not mean that those diseases are the equivalent of guinea worms but rather meant that people don’t get them anymore.”</p>
<p>Smallpox is not routinely immunized against, except for the armed forces, Level-4 lab workers, and other selected situations. It has been eradicated except is considered a bioterroist threat.</p>
<p>There was recently an outbreak of mumps in the midwest, thought to have been imported from unimmunized overseas visitors, as a variant from the common US strains.</p>
<p>There recently have been outbreaks of polio in West Africa, in areas where there are not (highly) immunized populations.</p>
<p>There are different strains of warts, and some are passed through sexual contact. Those are the types that can lead to cervical cancer. The benign warts on the hands and feet, as bothersome as they may be, do not lead to cervical cancer.</p>
<p>Heptitis B can be passed in many ways, not all by high risk behavior. One could have a college roommate who acquires it and passes it on. It is a devastating and often fatal illness. The vaccine will prevent this disease in eventually thousands and then millions of people. It has been widely accepted among the general population. </p>
<p>I fail to see why all of the emotion about diseases. If one has solid training in microbiology, anatomy, physiology, cell biology, histology and pathology, combined with a public health background, it really can make a lot of sense.</p>
<p>Great post, collegialmom. I hope you don’t get accused of posting b.s. that you make up yourself. Or of having an agenda. Or of promoting an ideology. </p>
<p>Are you currently active in the field of public health? In what capacity? </p>
<p>I recall a measles (or was it German measles?) outbreak at Rutgers not too long ago. Possibly traced to a non-immunized foreign student. This outbreak alerted the public health powers-that-be to the need for booster shots, or at least a change in the vaccination schedule.</p>
<p>Is the polio outbreak you speak of the one in Nigeria? Islamic clerics called for an immunization boycott (claiming polio vaccines were part of an evil U.S. plot) and an outbreak resulted. Spread to other countries, too.</p>
<p>I’ve cared for patients suffering with cirrhosis of the liver. I agree that it is a devastating, horrible way to die.</p>
<p>why I mentioned I had Hep B- was because literally I had no idea how I contracted it.
I was tested when I was pregnant with my 2nd child, as part of regular screening- I was negative- Just two years later, when I went to give blood, I tested positive.
I was told that it lives on surfaces, longer than HIV-
I agree that you might be able to get it from a college roommate- but as I mentioned, none of the people I was living with, had/have it.</p>
<p>Genital warts are not the kind that lead to cervical cancer- according to the NIH anyway- However, some people may have more than one kind of HPV at a time.</p>
<p>I also don’t beleive that Hep B is the most severe- wouldn’t that be Hep C?
Incidentally, in case anyone cares, I had Hep B and have antibodies for it, but I am not a carrier and I am not ill/
<a href=“http://www.webmd.com/diseases_and_conditions/hepatitis.htm[/url]”>Hepatitis A, B, and C Center: Symptoms, Causes, Tests, Transmission, and Treatments;
<p>There are a certain percent of people who acquire Hep B and have more serious consequences and become chronic carriers. You would not necessarily know who they are, hence one of the risks. It can be either a self-limited disease or chronic. It can be devastating, either acutely or chronically.</p>
<p>Yes, Hep C is also not a good disease to get, there is no vaccine, and for years there was not even a specific way to screen for it. Now there are screening tests, but no vaccine in general usage (there may be vaccine trials going on somewhere.)</p>
<p>Hepatitis B LONG-TERM EFFECTS WITHOUT VACCINATION<br>
Chronic infection occurs in:</p>
<pre><code>* 90% of infants infected at birth
<p>Death from chronic liver disease occurs in:</p>
<pre><code>* 15-25% of chronically infected persons
</code></pre>
<p>(source: CDC)</p>
<p>Unless you get HepB in infancy, it is NOT often fatal. </p>
<p>For those who get it after age 5, only 6% will become chronically infected. So if 100 people get it, 6 have chronic infections. Of those 6, 15-25% will eventually die from liver disease. 15% of 6 is 1. 25% of 6 is 1.5. So, out of every 200 people who contract HepB, only 2-3 of them will die from it. </p>
<p>Yes, it’s still a horrible way to die, and those people still suffered and their families continue to suffer. But you can’t pretend that they aren’t the exception. If 99% of people who get a disease don’t die from it, I have a hard time calling it “often fatal.”</p>
<p>HIV is often fatal. Pancreatic cancer is often fatal. HepB is not.</p>
<p>Those stats sound right for the U.S. – risk of death from Hep B about 1% of teens/adults infected. Risk of infection is related (with exceptions) to life style (heroin use, multiple unprotected partner sex). From a public health POV, prenatal testing and treatment make sense. The current requirement that kids get 4 shots before 7th grade makes less sense, given that short-term or long-term vaccine reactions are likely a greater risk than disease.</p>
<p>You are actually overlooking the morbidity associated with hepatitis B. Death is not the only consequence.</p>
<p>The concern with Hep B is not only the long-term but also the acute phases of illness. </p>
<p>Good prenatal care is not always available.</p>
<p>I really don’t know why you want to argue in favor of not trying to prevent Hepatitis B in the general population. But I am personally very happy to be able to be part of the effort to prevent this devestating illness in babies, children and adults. I assume that those who support the transmission of Hep B are happily unimmunized, and will refuse the vaccine for their families.</p>
<p>In one of the above poster’s statistics, you have decided to exclude children under 5 years old from your calculations. This is actually a very important age group to many health care professionals. We actually care a lot about preventing morbidity and mortality in this age group.</p>
<p>To you, it may seem as if children are not important to think about, but they really are. A lot of the public health measures in preventing Hep B are designed to prevent transmission to newborns. Although prenatal testing may have seemed routine to you during your pregnancies, it is not always so available. </p>
<p>Anyhow, luckily the public health debate has already taken place about Hep B vaccine. I missed reading about the roles that all of you posters have in medicine. I believe one of you said you were a professor of medicine at Harvard, and another is a bioengineering student there? What is the position at your hospitals and research institutions about Hep B vaccine? Are your posts an early reflection of a trend by Harvard’s public health community to rescind their support of eradication of Hep B in the US? Please clarify, if you are speaking for Harvard? I cannot find anything in the literature concerning a change in policy by Harvard, whose public health professionals have been strong supporters in the past of universal Hep B vaccination.</p>
<p>I am not really sure who you addressing collegial mom-
I haven’t said anything about vaccines of infants, but the only one in my family that is immunized against Hep B is my older daughter who was working in a health related field and it was strongly recommended if not required at the time.
I look at each vaccine seperately
My younger daughter does not react well to vaccines and so she has not had any since she was about 1 year old, except for a tetanus shot 5 yesrs ago.
I am certainly interested in teh HPV vacinne however, and I will research more about it</p>
<p>Collegialmom,</p>
<p>I recognize HepB is a serious illness, and that it is widespread in some parts of the world; vaccine may be well advised where the disease is rampant and good prenatal care unavailable.</p>
<p>As you say, I did not discuss morbidity, only death from liver cancer, in response to an earlier poster’s stats on that outcome in particular. I think we were both trying to put the HepB risk in the U.S. into perspective. For the same reason I omitted under-fives from my figures – certainly not because I don’t care about the health of little kids for goodness sake! But under-fives don’t usually partake of wild sex or shoot up – their risk is only from birth to an infected mother. It’s the MOTHER who needs care.</p>
<p>As for good prenatal care being unavailable in the U.S., that’s just shameful in this wealthy country. Let’s divert some funding there so potential moms can be screened and treated for diseases that threaten their babies.</p>
<p>You say “I really don’t know why you want to argue in favor of not trying to prevent Hepatitis B in the general population,” and I think that’s an unfair assessment. There has been insufficient research into the safety and efficacy of HepB vaccine. Little is known about the long term effect of immune system tampering in general. I talked just recently with a pediatrician who specializes in autoimmune disorders and who has studied vaccine use for 20 years or so (but he is not affiliated with Harvard – just a small-time community doctor). He advises his patients to refuse HepB and a number of other vaccines that have not, in his view, proven beneficial. He may be completely wrong, but he’s a smart guy, a caring provider, and he’s done some original research – and he has no reason to fudge his data.</p>
<p>I can see no justification, aside from the obvious pecuniary one, for CDC and its Merck subsidiary to inject infants with HepB vaccine; babies are not at risk (unless they’ve acquired HepB during birth and then it’s too late to vaccinate), and the vaccine might cause acute or chronic disease. I don’t know that this is true, nor can you know that it is not true. Good research hasn’t been done. The outcomes of various small-scale and questionably designed studies have been “all over the map,” suggesting complete safety or grievous harm. We just don’t know.</p>
<p>My kids have had some vaccinations, where their doctor and I thought the benefit outweighed the risk. They have not, and will not, get the HepB vaccine (or, for now, the HPV vaccine). Their risk of disease is negligible, and they can choose to vaccinate later if circumstances change.</p>
<p>By the way, have you had your anthrax shots?</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>StickerShock: I think you missed something. I wasn’t referring to the risks from vaccines. I was referring to the risks of the actual childhood diseases to those who are immunocompromised. I also responded to someone who tried to pass on the old (BS) about how the polio vaccine is going to give us all cancer from monkey viruses. </p>
<p>I am in favor of vaccines. I’m one of those strange people who reads histories of diseases—and that’s how you discover that epidemics have changed history, and keep happening, despite all our modern medicine. </p>
<p>For those of you who believe polio is eradicated, I suggest you check this web site: <a href=“http://www.polioeradication.org/casecount.asp[/url]”>http://www.polioeradication.org/casecount.asp</a> and its parent web site: <a href=“http://www.polioeradication.org/[/url]”>http://www.polioeradication.org/</a> which both report on progress in polio eradication. I remember similar reports in the last days of smallpox; what a joy it would be to similarly eliminate polio.</p>
<p>(Incidentally, I was vaccinated against smallpox, back in 1964, in preparation for a family trip to Turkey. Sometimes, late at night, I find myself wondering if that will give me protection, should terrorists choose to unleash smallpox again.)</p>
<p>I got your point, dmd. That’s why I posted this: “dmd77: Good point to remind everyone how serious exposure to childhood diseases (even simply being around a recently vaccinated person) can be for chemotherapy patients.” I wish every pediatrician administering the vaccines reminded parents to keep their kids away from granny for a few days if she’s undergong chemo. It could be serious.</p>
<p>I believe I’ve also been vaccinated against smallpox. As kids, we always compared our vaccination scars. That one left a good one, and our parents always told it was from the smallopox vaccine.</p>
<p>" wish every pediatrician administering the vaccines reminded parents to keep their kids away from granny for a few days if she’s undergong chemo. It could be serious."</p>
<p>Actually, only very few vaccines, such as oral polio vaccine (no longer administered in this country) pose an extremely low risk to an immunocompromised contact after a vaccination (As I recall, about 1 in 3 million). The CDC-produced vaccine information sheets distributed for oral polio vaccine very clearly state this risk with cautions given. The vaccines commonly administered such as DTaP, IPV, HIB, Prevnar and others do not present a risk of transmission of a disease to others. I suggest consulting a good microbiology text for an explanation of disease transmission, as it is for me beyond the scope of this website to teach basic science, although obviously someone else is welcome to try.</p>
<p>No one is sure how long the smallpox vaccine confers immunity, this anyhow depends upon the individual, and booster shots are recommended for full protection, although they are not available to the general public at this time.</p>
<p>Again, StickerShock, my point was not that vaccinated people are dangerous to those in chemo. It’s that the diseases those vaccinations prevent are dangerous to those in chemo. </p>
<p>The goal of vaccinations is overall <em>community</em> health, not individual health. Thus, we vaccinate children against chicken pox, even though it’s a relatively harmless disease in children, because adults can be made dangerously ill if they get it. Ditto German measles (exceedingly dangerous to fetuses in the first trimester) and mumps (not so good for adult men–when I got mumps at age 10, I was over it in days–my father spent over a month in bed recovering from the case he got from me).</p>
<p>Similarly, to get back to the HPV discussion, if we vaccinate a critical portion of the population, we will have far fewer cases of cervical cancer–even in those who don’t receive the vaccine–because we will reduce the overall incidence in the population from the present 80%.</p>
<p>I remember my brohter having mumps- when did they make a vaccine for it?</p>
<p>See I still don’t understand- if it is about community health rather than individual health- why are the millions of babies born everyyear immunized for Hep B ( or supposdely) when only a relative handful contract it/are at risk for it?
( and why if thimerosal does not cause damage, did the CDC order it removed from vacinnes- eventually)</p>
<p>“The goal of vaccinations is overall <em>community</em> health, not individual health. Thus, we vaccinate children against chicken pox, even though it’s a relatively harmless disease in children, because adults can be made dangerously ill if they get it. Ditto German measles (exceedingly dangerous to fetuses in the first trimester) and mumps (not so good for adult men–when I got mumps at age 10, I was over it in days–my father spent over a month in bed recovering from the case he got from me).”</p>
<p>dmd, all of this is common knowledge; you speak as though you believe that I, and those like myself who advise caution, are ignorant of the common risk/benefit controversy. Are you so certain of your version of the facts that you not see room for debate? The pro-vaccine argument maintains that herd immunity is worth the risk. Maybe it is. But an equally credible argument can be made to refute that claim. It is not a matter of ignorance or stupidity – it’s a different interpretation of the data, with experts on both sides of the issue. But the credibility of those in the industry (and I include the vaccine advisory panel at CDC as well as those who edit and publish the microbiology texts mentioned) is always going to be suspect. It’s impossible to remove bias when the researchers are heavily invested in the pharmaceutical industry. And they are. And they have the means to promote and enforce vaccination while quashing opposing voices.</p>
<p>For example, chicken pox can be a dangerous disease in adults. It is particularly dangerous in populations who have never known the disease at all (remember your U.S. history – American Indians died in droves when Europeans introduced chicken pox). It can legitimately be argued that vaccinating kids against chicken pox ultimately leaves the population MORE vulnerable, because effective, long-lasting immunity is not conferred by vaccine. We know this – check the data. We hope that varicella will eventually be eliminated, like smallpox, but this is unlikely any time soon. In the meantime, many experts believe we are all safer if kids get the chicken pox.</p>
<p>A second argument, and I’ll grant this is further from mainstream, is that the childhood diseases we grew up with strengthen our immune systems and leave us better able to cope with evolving pathogens. Perfectly rational, intelligent, well-informed clinicians are reporting this to be true in their experience. Again, perhaps they’re misreading the data. Perhaps not. I’m keeping an open mind.</p>
<p>I oppose government efforts to track and enforce universal vaccination unless and until independent research proves it’s beneficial.</p>
<p>"Quote: “For example, chicken pox can be a dangerous disease in adults. It is particularly dangerous in populations who have never known the disease at all (remember your U.S. history – American Indians died in droves when Europeans introduced chicken pox). It can legitimately be argued that vaccinating kids against chicken pox ultimately leaves the population MORE vulnerable, because effective, long-lasting immunity is not conferred by vaccine. We know this – check the data. We hope that varicella will eventually be eliminated, like smallpox, but this is unlikely any time soon. In the meantime, many experts believe we are all safer if kids get the chicken pox.”</p>
<p>Celloguy: I think you mean smallpox, not chickenpox, please check your history or pathology sources.</p>
<p>Quote: “A second argument, and I’ll grant this is further from mainstream, is that the childhood diseases we grew up with strengthen our immune systems and leave us better able to cope with evolving pathogens. Perfectly rational, intelligent, well-informed clinicians are reporting this to be true in their experience. Again, perhaps they’re misreading the data. Perhaps not. I’m keeping an open mind.”</p>
<p>Per the immune systems of babies and children being stronger by having diseases: there were 10s of thousands of babies and children who used to die of smallpox, diphtheria, polio and other diseases that we now prevent by vaccinations. Many died or had extremely serious sequelae such as mental retatrdation, profound hearing loss, etc, prior to the smallpox, diptheria, polio, HIB and Prevnar vaccines and others. If you want your children to risk getting serious preventable diseases, that is your right, however, having the general US patient population vaccinated has reduced or eradicated the incidence of these diseases. </p>
<p>People who do not vaccinate rely upon those who do to reduce the pool of disease, so thank them the most, if you do not want to acknowlege the role of the government or drug companies in the development and distributions of the vaccines as a positive step.</p>
<p>Quote:“Perfectly rational, intelligent, well-informed clinicians are reporting this to be true in their experience.”</p>
<p>Actually, the clinicians who state that all vaccines are foolish and risky vis a vis babies and children getting diseases such as diptheria, invasive hemophilus or pneumococcal disease, smallpox, etc, are not rational, intelligent or well-informed. They are totally irresponsible people who prey on ignorant people to either make a lot of money on selling books to innocent misinformed people, have no memory or knowledge of pediatric disease, or are misleading.</p>
<p>I suggest that you again read your books about the history of illness in this country. Even pay close attention to the eradication of invasive Hemophilus disease in the past 20 years. It has been amazing to witness how meningitis and brain damage from this organism has plummeted since the vaccine was introduced and mandated. You may even find some very sad posts on the internet from well-meaning parents who knowingly did not vaccinate their child for reasons such as you state, and whose child proceeded to get invasive hemophilus disease such as meningitis, winding up mentally ■■■■■■■■, deaf and profoundly damaged due to a preventable disease.</p>
<p>Luckily, those who refuse vaccination are a small minority of parents in this country, however, in areas where the refusal reaches a critical point, then the disease to rise again. There is even tetanus being reported in the unimmunized populations now, with its 50% mortality rate!</p>
<p>Quote: “( and why if thimerosal does not cause damage, did the CDC order it removed from vacinnes- eventually)”</p>
<p>To quiet the naysayers. However, in countries where the trace amounts of mercury in vaccines were removed 15-20 years ago, the incidence of autism continues to rise, and it clearly was shown that it was not mercury that caused autism.</p>
<p>The reason to immunize against rubella is to prevent it being transmitted to babies. Considering that pregnancies in young women as young as 12-14 years old are not uncommon, then it would seem prudent to vaccinate early, and to reduce the spread in the population. Or are you going to only select out those you think may get pregnant and give them earlier vaccines? Good luck in doing that.</p>
<p>Quote: “Ditto German measles (exceedingly dangerous to fetuses in the first trimester) and mumps (not so good for adult men–when I got mumps at age 10, I was over it in days–my father spent over a month in bed recovering from the case he got from me).”</p>
<p>You cannot extrapolate data from one case to make decisions for a population. Please check your pathology sourcebooks again, instead of using 1 anecdote from your childhood to make vaccine recommendations.</p>
<p>Nope, I meant chicken pox, as that was the topic at hand. Suggest you go back to your (un)authoritative U.S. history (Howard Zinn et al.)and look again:</p>
<p>“Authors who claim as fact that syphilis originated in the Americas, often fail to note that an estimated 65 percent or more of American Indians died from small pox, typhoid, scarlet fever, influenza, dysentery, diphtheria, chicken pox and cholera brought to the America by Europeans. (Smallpox alone had a mortality rate of 90 per 100 cases.)”</p>
<p>You’re parroting the party line. We’ve all heard it before. Much of it is undoubtedly valid. But I suggest your crap detector is underdeveloped. Did you also believe Bush when he told you Iraquis attacked New York and were armed and ready to nuke Washington?</p>