<p>I’m in a social science (psychology) and I completed 2.5 senior theses (the “half” I proposed successfully but could not get the required n–no fault of anyone, as i was working with a small sub population–so I didn’t complete it). A couple of thoughts:
-Many social sciences (psychology, for instance) operate on a lab structure, even if they aren’t “bench labs.”</p>
<p>-If the OP’s S hasn’t done research before–especially with these faculty–that may explain their hesitation. Doing research is a lot of learning by fire, and that’s why reputable PhD programs require at least a few semesters as an RA to be admitted. Also, it’s a lot more risky–generally–to work with a student who’s an unknown quantity. I struggled to find RA work at first, but once I had some under my belt, the opportunities opened up.</p>
<p>-that said, If this had happened to me as an undergrad, I would have felt cheated and very annoyed.</p>
<p>Cobrat - you are just the source of all knowledge here. I bet you if I was talking about planting something on the moon, you would know how to do it, or know a friend/cousin/aunt who had done it before.</p>
<p>My son was also unable to find a mentor for his honors thesis. During the spring of junior year he was invited to do an honors thesis in his major. He was on study abroad at the time and delayed responding. By mid-summer when he’d decided he wanted to do it and began emailing professors to find a mentor, all of them responded that they already had as many kids as they could take on. And this was a small LAC that prides itself on its student/faculty ratio and relationships. He ended up skipping the thesis. It all turned out alright, he graduated Magna cum Laude and got a job in his field.</p>
<p>As a social sciences prof, I’ll add my two cents. Honors theses (in my experience) are a different thing than an independent study. if I agree to advise a student on an honors thesis, I am signing on as a participant of sorts in that project (sort of like a PhD advisor - not to the same extent, but in the same way). I am saying that I believe in your project and I can help you develop it. I am committing a lot of my time to you - between meetings to discuss your ideas, reading drafts, sending you emails with sources I come across that might be helpful to you. It helps if I think you really care about your topic. It helps if you have written a research paper for me before. Supervising student research papers can be a true nightmare - students think research means the internet, vastly underestimate how much time it takes to write, have no interest in rewriting – not that any of these necessarily apply to the OPs son, but in my experience there a lot of very bright students who I would turn down if they asked me to supervise an honors thesis. </p>
<p>OP - I am curious, does your son want to write an honors thesis because he is passionate about his topic or because he wants to write an honors thesis?</p>
<p>Amesie my son passionate about the topic - is that a positive or a negative in your experience? He’s thought about it all summer, has read several books, has spoken with 4 adults who are expert in various aspects of the subject, attended 2 half-day workshops, and has applied what he’s learned to his own life. It’s a constant topic of conversation around our dinner table. He’s considering ways of making a career from what he’s learned so far, even though he knows he’s only touched the tip of the iceberg. The idea of graduating with honors appeals to him very much, but it’s more about the knowledge he’d gain by going deeper into this subject than it is the asterisk by his name in the commencement program.</p>
<p>He emailed Prof #4 and heard back right away with an encouraging email. They’ll get together the first week of school and figure out a way to move forward. I’m cautiously optimistic.</p>
<p>Passion is definitely a positive! First, it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the project - if it really matters to the student, that makes it worthwhile. Plus, a thesis is a lot of work - a lot more than some students realize. A thesis is not a glorified independent study project - a thesis project should contribute to the field, and that means that the project is unlikely to go exactly as planned. It’s that way in my own work - if I know for sure how something will turn out, it probably not something worth doing. But all that work, which will take an unexpected turn somewhere, means that the student needs to really care about the project. Otherwise it will just become an albatross. Which is no fun for the student or for me.</p>
<p>I’m glad that your son found someone, vballmom, who might be willing to mentor him.</p>
<p>I too was surprised at the number of people who thought this wasn’t going to work out, possibly because they didn’t go to an LAC. At LACs, pretty much anyone who wants to do a senior honors thesis and isn’t a nuisance student can do them - and you don’t have to work in an advisor’s lab or do something they’re interested in. I went to an LAC and did a senior honors thesis, and my advisor actually didn’t do ANY research in the field that my thesis was in (she did child motor development and other aspects of developmental psychology with children under 5; mine was an educational psychology project on college students, and I now study social health psychology). Her role was more guiding me along in the process of research - reading my drafts, helping me through IRB, helping me think through the process and how to narrow my question down. A person with a PhD should be able to do that for just about any project within their field that an undergraduate may come up with, even if it’s not in their subfield. At LACs, there may be no one in the subfield that has similar or the same interests as the student because the faculty is small. The qual/quant thing may be the hardest, but people in fields that have significant amounts of people doing both usually have a basic grasp on whatever the other method is and can refer to other professors with help on analysis.</p>
<p>I agree that the “I’m busy” answer is possibly due to professors already having senior honors thesis students to supervise or in other kinds of independent study projects.</p>
<p>Also from the vantage point of a semi-academic (I’m an advanced doctoral student who has supservised students before), sometimes great students who do well in classes and get good grades are not necessarily good thesis writers. Writing a thesis requires independent time management, strong research skills and strong writing skills. Students who are good in classes don’t necessarily have these qualities, and undergraduates by default need to be taught them. Even some of the brightest undergraduates will need a lot of guidance and regular meetings. Typically, though, SLAC faculty are willing to do that kind supervision because that’s what they went to teach at a SLAC wanting (or at least expecting): every SLAC advertisement I’ve ever seen emphasizes a willingness and desire to engage undergraduates in research as a prerequisite for the job.</p>
<p>D did a thesis last year in a social science, not lab based, and hearing about it throughout the year I was incredibly appreciative of the time her thesis director spent with her – and it was a LOT of time. He even had to work through an hours-long
human subjects safety on-line course and exam even though the data D used had already been collected by the college, and even though his own research doesn’t use data subject to this requirement.</p>
<p>The other two members of her committee also put hours and hours into working with her. </p>
<p>This was at a general research university, and her primary advisor was not yet tenured, which makes me doubly appreciative. Having watched this from a distance, I can easily understand why professors rather strictly limit how many of these they’ll supervise. </p>
<p>Vballmom – sounds like things are looking up for your son. I hope it all works out.</p>
<p>YMMV depending on LACs. Many departments at my LAC had minimum GPA requirements along with having an approved topic and advisor willing to work with you. There was also the stipulation the paperwork signifying those approvals were to be in place before the end of the first semester junior year. </p>
<p>If one waited till the end of junior year to even discuss the topic/finding an advisor, it is usually too late unless the student concerned is so good and likable that the Profs/department is willing to go out of their way to help them out. </p>
<p>Knew several classmates who would have been great thesis writers<em>, but who weren’t able to do a thesis due to falling slightly below the GPA requirements, not having a topic which was considered suitable, and/or no Prof was willing to work with them due to various issues</em>*.</p>
<ul>
<li>Some have successfully completed grad programs with thesis requirements at respectable/elite universities with no difficulties.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>** I.e. Social maturity/skills, demonstration of being lacking in traits/skills needed to conduct independent research & complete a long thesis at the time, being a high-maintenance headache, etc.</p>
<p>Ummm, this is hardly unusual or above and beyond. IRB/Human Subjects Protection training is incredibly common in the social and (bio)medical sciences, is universally required when working with human subjects data, and is not difficult at all. I’d be shocked if he hadn’t done it before, if not multiple times. Also, if the professor never worked with human subjects data before (which I doubt, given that he is in a field that does), I seriously question why he was would be advising a data-driven thesis project. Not saying he wasn’t a great advisor, but this is hardly some unusual, monumental sacrifice on his part.</p>
<p>Being told “I don’t have time.” is part of his education. He needs to figure out how to approach people to make them interested in the project and confident in his ability to do it, and how to read what he is being told when he approaches them. The first few weeks of school when this is getting settled will be stressful. </p>
<p>There are so many issues in play, outside adviser, field of study, suitability of the project to a year undergrad research, the number of advisor the faculty member already has. It usually works out that the same 3 faculty members seem more approachable and they get asked more than any of the other profs. It is unlikely that these profs would still be available in the fall. What he needs to do is listen to what he is told, and be persistent in finding someone, and he may be asked to work on the project from a different angle.</p>
<p>Learning to go through this painful interview process is one of the most important things he will be doing in the project. Students don’t look at it this was but it is. He may end out working with a new faculty member who he initially has to teach about the research area, he might end out finding out that the difficult faculty member is a good advisor with connections that will get him a great job. All of this is educational.</p>
<p>My son met with prof #4 yesterday during his office hours. Prof #4 liked the topic and has agreed to be my son’s senior project advisor. He gave my son some good advice regarding the scope and focus of his project. The new narrowed scope will be easier for my son to do and, even better, it will be very relevant to my son’s career interests. The prof made a phone call to one of the other professors who originally didn’t have time. She agreed to be on the senior project committee and has invited my son to join her regular weekly research team meeting. She’s also going to share the results of her literature search. Her research is very similar to my son’s area of interest, although the application is different.</p>
<p>The schedule for the senior project has apparently changed this year with some interim papers required to be delivered at specific times over the course of the year. This seems like a good idea for everyone to be sure that the student is on track. The first deliverable is due at the end of next week. This will be findings from a preliminary literature search, a draft of the project aims, and a discussion of methods.</p>
<p>My son is very excited about this project and I’m happy that he seems to be off to a good start now that he’s back on campus.</p>
<p>One more update for those who might find themselves in similar situations. A faculty member outside of my son’s department has agreed to be on his senior project committee. She’s doing research with the other committee member. It’s really nice that these two professors have agreed to advise my son because their research is very relevant to what he wants to study. He’s been invited to attend their weekly research team meetings as an observer.</p>
<p>His senior project advisor has been very supportive. I’m not sure if he’s the one who nudged the other two faculty members to be on the committee, or if my son persuaded them. Regardless, things seem to be going well despite the uncertain start.</p>