<p>If friends of mine were placing an offer on a house that they wanted, and the seller closed the deal with someone else, I would still understand and sympathize, if my friends were disappointed. Of course they could find a house that was approximately equally nice, in approximately the same price range, but if they really wanted the first house, I wouldn’t tell them, “This is America! There are plenty of fine houses out there!”</p>
<p>I think that you are right, Pizzagirl and bclintonk, about the closing of opportunities for students who are not offered admission to “top” schools in some foreign countries, although I have no direct information on that.</p>
<p>I nevertheless sympathize with a student from IMSA (say) who wanted to study nanoscience at Northwestern, and now has to go elsewhere.</p>
<p>There are quite a few large public research universities in the region around the Great Lakes in addition to other options. I think that Northwestern’s program in nanoscience stands a bit above theirs (and the National Research Council thinks so, too). Of course, the student’s not being admitted as an undergrad is no calamity. And the student could be admitted for grad school. But if the student is disappointed, my first reaction is not going to be "This is America! . . . "</p>
<p>While I don’t think that the admissions personnel should lose sleep over strong students they cannot admit, and I certainly don’t support obscenities or threats of using “pull” by the parents or GCs of disappointed applicants, I think that admissions personnel should not completely dismiss the disappointment of the highly qualified applicants that they reject, either.</p>
<p>I have some empathy for the Northwestern admissions people. We can only imagine. </p>
<p>OTOH, I’m aware of a parent whose student was denied at a large out-of-state school. The student had potential reasons to be denied academically, and the parent made a call to admissions and spoke cordially to a young admissions assistant. The purpose of the call was to ascertain whether first semester grades had arrived before the decision had been made (since they showed improvement from the prior year). After explaining nicely that the parent wasn’t questioning the decision, but rather asking to know if all the data had been available, the admissions guy looked it up and found that, yes, they had the most recent data. Parent thanked him gratefully for taking the time to look it up.</p>
<p>Three days later the regional director called and reversed the rejection. You can’t prove it, but my guess is that it was partly because of the politeness and approach of the parent. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but most people seem to lose sight of it. If your purpose is to vent, the admissions guys have had it up to there. If you’re interested in getting some advice, they probably feel a little differently, even if they are overworked.</p>
<p>It goes without saying that the “sweet-talking” approach only works in isolated cases.</p>
<p>If I worked in higher-up administration at Northwestern, I’d want to know the details of exactly how this was leaked to parents (including, apparently, the OP of this thread). According to the “Inside Higher Ed” article:
</p>
<p>I don’t see how this makes fun of rejected applicants. It makes fun of those very few parents or advocates who call to complain about an admissions decision, and the categories obviously consist of statements that parents have actually made. </p>
<p>OP, here’s a concept that might serve you well in the future (though if you actually are the parent of an incoming college freshman, it amazes me that you haven’t learned it yet): The decision of the judges is final. There is no point in calling the director to see why you didn’t get the part, the head of HR to find out why you didn’t get the job, or someone on the MacArthur awards committee to find out why they don’t think you’re a genius. You aren’t entitled to an explanation. All of us have kids who haven’t gotten what they wanted, and it’s our job to deal with it gracefully so that they can, too. Move on.</p>
<p>It’s not that this is “that bad” or that adcoms don’t come in for some uncalled-for abuse.</p>
<p>The problem is that things like this feed into the worries and lurking doubts common to stressed-out applicants and parents - that despite heartfelt claims that each application is regarded with the utmost care and concern, it’s all a fa</p>
<p>FWIW- If this was leaked by someone on his staff, (as mentioned in the linked article) he is probably unliked by his staff, which is why it was leaked. He sounds like an immature person. I am sure only a few parents out of the 1000s+ of rejected applicants actually called to rant . No matter how much this may have been an attempt at levity or stress relief, if you put it in electronic form, expect to be called on the carpet. When you are in a professional position, be professional. When things are not right (in many important areas), too many people do not speak up, which perpetuates poor, unprofessional behavior. As grandma used to say, “Mind your Ps &Qs”…</p>
<p>Hi guys. I’m an NU student and a reporter for the Daily Northwestern. We are working to cover the leaking of this email and I wanted to see if anyone on this thread would be interested in doing an interview with me sometime before my deadline tonight. If you are willing send me a message or post on the thread!</p>
<p>Is there evidence that the NU admissions staff “completely dismisses” the disappointment of the highly qualified applicants that they reject?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The problem is that things like this feed into the worries and lurking doubts common to stressed-out applicants and parents - that despite heartfelt claims that each application is regarded with the utmost care and concern, it’s all a fa</p>
<p>I think this is kind of like adcom war stories about applicants who send in cookies, or other stuff like that. It’s also like IT people stories about people who didn’t plug in the computer, etc. It’s a kind of behind-the-scenes shop talk that customers really don’t need to hear, and it happens in many professions.</p>
[quote]
The problem is that things like this feed into the worries and lurking doubts common to stressed-out applicants and parents - that despite heartfelt claims that each application is regarded with the utmost care and concern, it’s all a fa</p>
[quote]
The problem is that things like this feed into the worries and lurking doubts common to stressed-out applicants and parents - that despite heartfelt claims that each application is regarded with the utmost care and concern, it’s all a fa</p>
<p>I’m trying to get at something a little more subtle than ‘don’t do foolish things or you will get what you deserve.’ I’m talking about the glimpse behind the curtain to a slight lack of professionalism. Whether the customer had it coming has no bearing. Any type of unprofessional behavior feeds the anxiety of applicants to these super selective institutions.</p>
<p>You hit the nail on the head. So along the lines of this NU thing: if you found out your oncologist, say, has a little humor column in the electronic medical record to categorize patients who do not respond well to their diagnosis, would it be funny?</p>
<p>I think this is a tempest in a teapot. But it’s unprofessional and that’s why NU apologized.</p>
<p>IMO, an understatement. I’m not sure applicants are so anxiety ridden that they can’t distinguish the difference between making fun of hopeful applicants and an in-house discussion of parents’ inappropriate comments and threats. In this case, the “curtain” has revealed human beings who showed their frustration with and disdain for abusers. Big deal. I’m sure the individuals involved have by now been appropriately castigated to the satisfaction of all the entitled jerks who yelled at, threatened, and insulted them with profanity and immature vitriol. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Not the same as the oncologist idea, at all. </p>
<p>It’s not life and death, but maybe some parents act like it.</p>
<p>It’s not unprofessional. It’s normal and it’s funny. Many people need to do this kind of thing to get through the day. What employees don’t talk about the annoying customers behind their backs?</p>
<p>I prefer to live in a world where this stuff happens than where it is scorned.</p>
<p>I agree, Redpoint. Admissions staff people are human beings just like the rest of us, and are allowed a pass to blow off steam at the office. (And WHAT kind of person would pass on that screen shot to an unhappy parent/caller?)</p>
<p>It seems to me that people who use humor to relieve tension sooner or later get into trouble from those that don’t have a sense of humor and are thus always tense and looking for someone else to blame.</p>
<p>Not sure how you can equate not getting into one of the many universities you applied to with potential death. Maybe that is part of the problem right there. Acceptance is not life or death and parents need to get on board with that. Notice the category wasn’t about angry calls that they get from students, it was all about calls that they got from the adults attached to them.</p>
<p>And again, I might be reading the chart incorrectly but they are just documenting calls that they received? I used to do tech support and we had to document every conversation. If that is what these people are saying, then there needs to be a place to document it.</p>