<p>I grew up in Oslo and this is just completely shocking. </p>
<p>He was a right-wing nut who happened to be a Christian. Regarding the fundamentalist part that the media is preaching, that is them reaching. (The only evidence of that is that he posted on some Christian fundamentalist websites)</p>
<p>From what it looks like, this was more of a political statement as he attacked the Labor party and one of its umbrella youth programs. (In Norway they are the liberal party and he is a conservative)</p>
<p>We just got back from a vacation to Norway and Sweden. Such beautiful and safe countries with warm, friendly people. My oldest daughter felt very safe jogging through Oslo in the evening. Of course the sun was still up until 11:00 p.m. </p>
<p>I am deeply saddened by this horrific incomprehensible crime.</p>
<p>I did look at the statistics, and I see many many terrorists who are not Muslim. In the last twenty years, we’ve seen a wide variety of groups committing terrorist acts: the Basque separatist group ETA; the IRA; the Tamil Tigers; Latin American drug lords; a crazy Israel settler murdering 29 unarmed Palestinians, as well as al-Qaeda and related groups. In the US we have the Oklahoma City bomber, the right-wing fundamentalists who shoot up abortion clinics and murder doctors, the anthrax attacker. Of all terrorism in the US, hardly any has been committed by Muslims.</p>
<p>It seems that rather than saying all or most terrorists are Muslims, which is clearly untrue, we can say that most terrorists are either (1) religious fundamentalists, Christian, Muslim, Jew (or some other religion); (2) separatists like ETA, the IRA and the Tamil Tigers or (3) mobsters like the Latin American drug lords.</p>
<p>You don’t have to reach very far to assume that a person who identifies himself as a conservative right-winger and a Christian is a right-wing Christian. If you want to argue that a “real” Christian wouldn’t shoot up a camp because Christianity is a religion of peace, fine, but then you’d better be willing to accept that a “real” Muslim wouldn’t blow up a marketplace because Islam is a religion of peace. Don’t trot out the no true Scotsman defense or we’ll laugh in your face.</p>
<p>I agree with Cardinal Fang, with the exception that CF, you put terrorists into various buckets by belief, civil war, etc.</p>
<p>I think it’s also important to note that while many of these terrorists identify as a certain religion or national group, frequently they are actually mentally disturbed persons.</p>
<p>Do you know the total number Basque separatist group ETA have killed in Spain since their campaign? Do you know the number the muslim terrorist killed in the Madrid bombing alone?</p>
<p>“I did look at the statistics, and I see many many terrorists who are not Muslim. In the last twenty years, we’ve seen a wide variety of groups committing terrorist acts: the Basque separatist group ETA; the IRA; the Tamil Tigers; Latin American drug lords; a crazy Israel settler murdering 29 unarmed Palestinians, as well as al-Qaeda and related groups. In the US we have the Oklahoma City bomber, the right-wing fundamentalists who shoot up abortion clinics and murder doctors, the anthrax attacker. Of all terrorism in the US, hardly any has been committed by Muslims.” #43</p>
<p>What are the statistics for the last ten years (not twenty as above) since 9/11 and worldwide - not just in the US as you specify? The majority of terror is NOT in the US since 9/11. And, what is your source for the above quote - AND - number of attacks does not translate into NUMBERS KILLED, nor the methods of death (ie.Daniel Pearl).</p>
<p>Since you looked up “statistics” why not take a look at what our government thinks about terrorist organizations on 2011? </p>
<p>Fwiw, 70 percent seems to be a reasonable qualifier for the term … most! Just as saying that out of every ten terrorist groups, seven seem to be be of muslim or arabic origin. </p>
<p>And, as an additional fwiw, should we ask ourselves which of those groups Americans consider an active and imminent threat? The IRA or ETA? Yeah, right! </p>
<p>Wake me up when Christian, Jewish, ETA, Tamil tigers, etc. terrorists bring their fights to our shores. You are more likely to die from a terrorist act by Muslims than by any of the other groups combined.</p>
<p>What is your point here, tega? You wanted to claim that most terrorists are Muslims. I dispute that. Now you say that acts of Muslim terrorism are particularly deadly. Maybe, but that wasn’t your initial claim. </p>
<p>If we know that there was a particular act of terrorism, and we know nothing more about it, then are we justified in assuming or guessing that the terrorist was a Muslim? No, we are not. Terrorists come in all religions.</p>
<p>As to hayden’s point about people who are mentally disturbed, terrorism has a fuzzy definition. So, for example, the Arizona shooter is seemingly mentally disturbed-- in fact, the dude is crazy. But do we want to even call his shooting “terrorism”? I tend to think that we shouldn’t call an act terrorism unless it was committed in the furtherance of some ideology, however crazed. Just because a man has guns and shoots people doesn’t make him a terrorist. I wouldn’t call the Arizona dude a terrorist, nor would I call most of the school shooters in the last few years “terrorists”-- they were just crazy people with guns.</p>
<p>On the other hand, maybe we do want to call these crazies with guns terrorists. I don’t know enough to say whether that’s a useful categorizing. Are crazies with guns like militants with guns and bombs?</p>
<p>Based on the number of organizations recognized as terrorist, that dispute does not seem to be valid. I believe the same could be said about the number of participants in each organization. Like it or not, the epicenter of terrorism in 2011 is the middle of the Muslim world. </p>
<p>This, of course, much different from stating that Muslims condone terrorism.</p>
<p>You dispute what? I initially wrote western world, you probably did not pay attention to that part. ETA (how many terrorist acts have they commited in the last 20 years?) is not a threat to Americans, their battle is with Madrid. The Tamil tigers are not a threat to America, their battle is in Sri Lanka,. Jewish Terrorist are not a threat to Americans, their battle is in Israel.</p>
<p>Muslim terrorists are a threat to Americans because their battle is the infidels who live within (look at Pakistan) and outside their borders.</p>
<p>Quote:
Regarding the fundamentalist part that the media is preaching, that is them reaching.
You don’t have to reach very far to assume that a person who identifies himself as a conservative right-winger and a Christian is a right-wing Christian. If you want to argue that a “real” Christian wouldn’t shoot up a camp because Christianity is a religion of peace, fine, but then you’d better be willing to accept that a “real” Muslim wouldn’t blow up a marketplace because Islam is a religion of peace. Don’t trot out the no true Scotsman defense or we’ll laugh in your face. </p>
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<p>With the Norwegian suspect, there’s no real apparent motivation. What were his concerns? What part of the government did he disagree with? Why did he attack the labor party?</p>
<p>We know^^^ none of that. The only thing we know is that he’s a self-described christian that shot up/bombed a lot of people. That doesn’t make him a fundamentalist.
For all you know this had nothing to do with his religious views.</p>
<p>It is this moral equivalency that drives me mad. I want to ask you a question; How many Jewish, Hindu, Christian terrorist acts have you heard about in America within the last 20 years? </p>
<p>How many Muslim terrorist acts have you heard about in American within the last 20 years?</p>
<p>Wake up, Tega, Christian fundamentalist terrorists are here. There have been more episodes of fundamentalist Christian terrorism than incidents of Muslim terrorism in the US, by a lot. These terrorists have targeted doctors, gay people and Unitarians, among others.</p>
<p>Cardinal, I think you are the one who needs to be waking up to the dangers and threats Muslim radicals pose to America and the western world. I hope you are not taking your cue from the DHS (an almost useless bureaucracy) that Christian fundamentalists and gun ‘nuts” are the main threats to us.</p>