@collegemom3717 If I were to go to grad school, I would be the one that gets paid by the college because of the finance PhD program. It’s difficult to get in, but I don’t know if that would make a difference in my undergrad option of 60k debt.
Not sure what your point is @Sportsman319 - do you mean you won’t need the money for grad school? if so, that’s great- you can use the extra $$ for another part of life.
If you mean you aren’t sure what happens to undergrad debt while you are in grad school, you can defer payments as long as you are in a full-time program, but the interest continues to accumulate during those years (the usual advice is to at least keep making the interest payments while you are in grad school).
Is that what you meant?
I meant that maybe I could spend that much for undergrad and still go to grad school?
An Econ major smart enough to be admitted to Notre Dame and Richmond knows the right answer to this question, but it’s not the one he/she wants to hear.
I say this gently and without snark as the parent of a kid who got no $ from her longtime first choice so wound up at her second choice. Within weeks, she said she was so happy there she couldn’t imagine being anywhere else. Graduated Phi Beta Kappa and is in a doctoral program now.
Yes, you can. You can spend $100K and still go to grad school. It’s not so much a question of can you, as should you. As in so many things, there are trade-offs. In this case, you have an emotional attachment to a dream that will cost you $60K in debt to make come true on the one hand vs an alternative that fulfills all the objective elements of your dream and comes with no debt on the other. To get the first now, you will have to give up some things later. It is normal human behaviour to *discount/i the negatives of things that are far in the future compared to those in the present.
Right now you really really want the shiny toy. In 4 years when you have to start paying for the toy - and for the next 10 years after that as you keep paying for the toy that is now all used up- you may think differently. Of course, you might not! You might feel 'I had such a wonderful 4 years it is worth it to have this amount deducted from my paycheck every month.
And obviously I don’t know all your/your families resources, what your hopes and expectations for the next stages of life are, etc. So I’ll just say: there is no objective reason for taking on $60K of debt to go to ND v UR. If you were my collegekid I would not co-sign that debt.*
(btw, just for shucks, imagine you decide to go to ND, you get there and…reality doesn’t live up to the dream. Unlikely perhaps, but just over 30% of 1st year ND students don’t return after first year. You decide to transfer, but your free ride at UR is gone. Now reverse the exercise: you take the free ride at UR …and reality bites. You decide you want to be one of the 7% of first years who doesn’t return after first year and you transfer to ND. One year of free tuition reduces your cumulative debt @ND by $15K)
*your parents have to co-sign it- you can’t borrow that much on your own, b/c even the people who are willing to repeatedly shaft students with terrible student loan rules don’t think that an 18 year old should be able to sign up for more than $23K in loans.
" Unlikely perhaps, but just over 30% of 1st year ND students don’t return after first year."
Doesn’t ND have a 98% retention rate, one of the best in the country?
Notre Dame students also go on to graduate within four years at a similarly high rate.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate
If you’re interested in economics, look up ‘georgetown net present value college degree’ and compare the two schools.
mea culpa! I went too fast and didn’t go to a definitive source- yes, ND reports a 98% retention rate. Apologies & thanks for the correction @oldlaw !
I guess I am exhibiting some confirmation bias here. But is there any case to be made for me to go to ND? Any positives?
Did you look up the net present value page? Richmond looks better at 10 years (taking debt into account), ND at 40.
Absolutely, you prefer it at this stage! Just as some rationally might pay more for Richmond based on its attributes in relation to their criteria and preferences, you rationally could pay more for Notre Dame based on its attributes in relation to your criteria and preferences.
I’m sure it can be hard to turn down your dream school! I truly think that your experience would be very much like @yauponredux 's student…if/once you let ND go, commit, ND will fade away. College is so encompassing that I really think that for the vast majority of students, they end up very happy with where they are and don’t give their other schools any thought once they start. UR could be the dream school that you never got to meet! It’s hard though, I think it’s OK to realize that you’re having a tough time turning down that emotional attachment. Some kids find it hard to make their college decisions and let the other options go. That’s OK!
Hi @Sportsman319. There are definitely positives at ND. The alumni network is one of the largest and most devoted. Some might use that factor alone to justify a big COA differential. The “brand” is also global and everyone knows it, as opposed to some who will say UR who, which definitely attends even the top LAC’s. If you consult the Niche ratings for ND, you will see the superlatives that students have for their faculty. That is very important. And of course, there is an unparalleled feeling of excitement on game days, esp. for football. That is built into my DNA having grown up cheering the “Comeback Kid,” Joe Montana. However, note that parties are not ND’s strong point. Lots of frustrated college kids trying to find one another under somewhat sad conditions drinking beer in male dorm rooms. See, e.g.,
I would completely understand if you went with ND, but I am hoping you choose UR.
There have been plenty of good reasons provided to attend UR over ND, but in light of your numerous posts it’s clear that you are having serious reservations about not attending ND. It would probably be best to sit down with your parents and try to work this out; anonymous voices on the internet can only help so much.
Sounds like there is a $15k plus gap per year between your expected contribution and the resources you have to meet that contribution. Since you are already getting some financial aid from ND, that already presumably includes student loans and work study pay. So, the only way to close that yearly gap is for your parents to borrow additional sums. Are they willing to take those loans out to fund your education, taking into account annual increases in tuition and room and board, so that the gap grows? If not (putting aside whether they should), then ND is unaffordable. Most students have to make college decisions taking into account finances.
While I only know Richmond by reputation, from what I hear, the student body sounds like there is a lot of overlap with ND student body – nice kids, hard working, fairly pre-professional/career oriented as compared to some schools which are more “intellectually intense.” Not that ND and Richmond don’t provide a great education with strong faculty, but they are different cultures than say, Chicago, Swarthmore or Reed. I’ve heard that Richmond has a pristine, almost scarily perfect campus – much like ND’s where flower beds are perfect. ND does have parietals and single sex dorms, with the requirement that students live on campus for three years (going forward, a new requirement) and students moving off campus senior year, at least based on current proposals, give up a lot of campus involvement opportunities. While ND is known, justifiably, for its devoted alumni network, that network, plus 6 game days a fall, would not be sufficient distinguishing features for my family to incur additional debt.
@Sportsman319 current ND student happy to answer questions. shoot me a PM if you have any.
I am going to disagree with most of the posters here. I think for a 100K gap, that’s too much, and UR is a great place and I would go there with no regrets.
But for a 60K debt- I don’t see that as insurmountable for you, and your dream school, with the alumni connections and prestige that ND has, is probably worth it.
I’m in a very similar situation right now. I could graduate from Richmond with no debt, but I was also accepted to Dartmouth, which I would have to pay full tuition for (I would have around 100,000 in student loans as well). Although I’m not decided yet, I’m leaning towards Richmond right now because I know that I won’t have a financial burden after college. There are some aspects of Dartmouth that I would love, but in the end, the fact that I could have money saved for potentially going to grad school has swayed my decision. It’s definitely a difficult decision to make, but I’ve just been trying to keep thinking about long-term results. Also, I would have to get a high paying job right out of college to pay off loans, and I would love to spend time after college traveling.
I think a lot of posters are overlooking that OP would be in debt to his PARENTS.
There are a number of important questions that haven’t been asked yet.
How easily can your parents cover the cost of ND in the first place? And how Covid-safe is that cover? Would they have to borrow themselves? If they had to, it’s an absolute no. If they just want you to have skin in the game, particularly in the light of the almost full ride at Richmond, that’s different.
If they ca easily take the hit of paying for ND and do not anticipate problems in a recession or maybe even depression, how would they feel and act if you were to struggle with repayment? I don’t mean that you are to expect loan forgiveness from them, that would be churlish. But they are not loan sharks and not banks (still a difference, hopefully). They would want you to be able to choose a job with prospect, to get married, buy a house, have a family eventually. They will want you to take your obligations seriously, but would not want to saddle you with crippling repayments.
Clearly, they do want you to consider the ND option seriously, or they would not have reconsidered their own offer, but they also want you to understand the value of the money they are prepared to lay out for it. Speak to them. Understand what it means to them to lay it out in the first place, and what the risk of your being unable to pay your debt back fast means to them (do they count on it for their retirement, for instance). This is not really about what the campuses are like.