Novak names names in Plame leak case

Parent Cafe
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<p>Me, I’m confused why we’re torturing anyone. The most effective method for obtaining information from Japanese prisoners during WW2 turned out to be kindness and sympathy. We have research on this, folks, and torture doesn’t work. <a href=“Reporting | The New Yorker”>Reporting | The New Yorker;

<p>And we’ve opened up the possibility that Americans captured in our so-called war will be tortured in revenge.</p>

<p>Is that really what we want America to stand for? I find it enormously depressing that we’ve
*held people without any kind of trial for more than four years, and
*tortured people in the name of democracy and freedom</p>

<p>for what? revenge for the actions of a twisted few? We’ve squandered world sympathy and made ourselves enemies all over the world.</p>

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<p>Please send bin Laden’s driver over to my house. I could use someone ruthless to navigate the LA freeways and who could stick to a maintenance schedule.</p>

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<p>I guess we can add exhibits B, C, D, etc. as to why the left just doesn’t get it. They prefer to believe their own propaganda (which just happens to be consistent with the propaganda of al Qaeda) regarding “torture”. Yet this is what the reality of Gauntanamo is:</p>

<p>

<a href=“http://www.postchronicle.com/news/security/article_2129526.shtml[/url]”>http://www.postchronicle.com/news/security/article_2129526.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>To equate either accidental events or isolated activities of rogue Americans with the deliberate and horrendous activities of the terrorists is beyond the pale. The response of the US to such events (which are pale by comparison) is to investigate and when warranted imprison the offending parties. The response of those who you feel are “just on the other team” is to publicize their success on the internet and TV as a means to rally their base. Perhaps these types of posts on your part go a long way towards why the American electorate doesn’t trust the left with their ability/willingness to conduct the war on terrorism. </p>

<p>newmassdad, I wish I could look at your posts as well as some of your friends on the left and “get a good laugh”, but unfortunately I can’t laugh when I see the direct results of your views will end up with more Americans being killed. Sorry, but it’s really not a laughing matter.</p>

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<p>“newmassdad, I wish I could look at your posts as well as some of your friends on the left and “get a good laugh”, but unfortunately I can’t laugh when I see the direct results of your views will end up with more Americans being killed.”</p>

<p>There you go again.</p>

<p>You probably take comfort in your black and white world. Some of us do not believe the bad stuff the US has done was due to “rogue Americans” especially when it took the US Supreme court to repudiate some of these activities. You seem to conveniently forget that the activities most of the world views as torture were sanctioned activities on the part of the current administration. </p>

<p>So, by your standards the Bush administration is a rogue administration.</p>

<p>OK, now we’re getting somewhere. </p>

<p>The problem with your thougts is that you can’t realize how our activities are making matters worse, increasing our risk. Take Iraq. Whether or not it was a terrorist den before, it certainly is now. </p>

<p>And why you equate criticism of our efforts with support of “the other team” is beyond me. Maybe you can’t see the difference between the “other team” and the people swept into it?</p>

<p>Who knows? You bomb and forget types can go your way. We’ll see in the next election cycle who is really trusted to keep this country safe: the bomb, invade and destroy group that you seem to be part of, or the folks that look for better ways.</p>

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<p>At Guantanamop, the arrows on the floor that point to mecca were laid down deliberately off by 6 degrees. The resulting poorly aimed prayers sent from the detention centers have angered the u.s. street where leaks are quite commonly taken. Govt spokepersons have blamed the disconnect on a separation of church and state. “We tried to prevent any direct link tracing back to the Saudis. Instead we find ourselves between a holy rock and a hard place” senior officials confided to a sweaty reporter in left field. Inmates to sue makers of duct tape. This just out: the world is insane.</p>

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<p>

So, what “bad stuff” was repudiated by the Supreme Court? You mean the fact that they effectively said everything we are doing is OK? Even the creation of a judicial system to deal with the prisoners was optional and could be done the way the administration wanted as long as Congress buys in. Sure sounds like “torture” to me. </p>

<p>And how does that compare with torture killing? The trouble with you “shades of gray” types is that killing someone by slow, intentional torture is the same shade of gray as putting women’s underwear over a prisoner’s head - an act that resulted in a jail sentence versus a prideful internet display for the torture killing.</p>

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<p>

This is the view of the Hart/Rudman report from before 9/11 and before Iraq:

</li>
</ol>

<p>Those who studied the issue back then predicted this type of warfare without there ever being a hint of an invasion of Iraq. Sadly, the “all people are good, we just need to learn to get along” types fail to learn that lesson. I wonder what it would take for them to finally wake up and realize that unless we deal with this as what it is (a war) versus a crime, that we will be continue to be subject to attacks that “shock our sensibilities”.</p>

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<p>you may not have to wonder for very much longer,…</p>

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<p>ff,</p>

<p>If you are so dense you don’t know or understand what the Supreme Court decision said regarding our activities, then I have nothing more to contribute. </p>

<p>This discussion has gone far enough, IMHO. I’ll let FF babble on without me.</p>

<p>So long.</p>

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<p>Typical non-response response. When you don’t know enough to respond, just lob an insult and then run and hide.</p>

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<p>The US is a lame duck at the moment, mired beyond belief in the mess is Iraq while a world war is gearing up elsewhere in the ME. Bush is so ineffectual that he is unable to advance any change in the mighty mess unfolding in Lebanon. </p>

<p>I know FF and the other Bush aologists are still crowing about how lovely things are in Iraq, how the Iraqi are thanking their “liberators”, but the whole tinder box in the ME is about to blow up, with 150,000 American troops smack dab in the middle. And our president is busy roasting pig and hasn’t a clue how to keep the top from blowing off this situation because we have no money or troops or world diplomatic advantage at this point. Bush spent his capital on Iraq, and what’s unfolding right now makes that insurgency look like a cake walk.</p>

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<p>I was going to argue with FF, but since heonly values American lives, what is the point</p>

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<p>9/11!! 9/11!! Terrorists!!! Terrorists!!! Be afraid!!! Be very afraid!!!</p>

<p>As I was in Manhattan on that day, cut-off from my family for many hours, lost friends and a cousin, and live in the hardest-hit area in NY–where many of the streets in my neighborhood are named for people who never came home that day – I take enormous offense at your post. I sincerely hope that you never have to know what it’s like first hand because even five years later the sights, smells, and terror of that day are still right there. You can certainly argue idealogical differences, but this was beyond the pale. Shame on you.</p>

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<p>Oh yeah, we won’t talk to them, I forgot, and we don’t want to talk to Korea</p>

<p>Having a conversation, no matter how it starts is least a place to start, but we don’t even want to walk into the room</p>

<p>Why are we so afraid to have had a conversation?</p>

<p>THat worked real well with NoKo during the Clinton years.</p>

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<p>terrorist from Saudi Arabia, NOT IRAQ</p>

<p>and don’t shame on me you have no clue, and to value our lives over all others is shameful</p>

<p>we have killed MORE civilians in the name of protecting ourselves, shame on you for wanting Iraqi babies dead</p>

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<p>Kluge posted:
“Bottom line: any time someone uses “9/11” as an argument, excuse, or justification for something, I just figure they don’t want me to think with my brainb, but with my gut. I am very cautious around such people.”</p>

<p>And I am very cautious around such people as you. You may tell yourself that you’re thinking with your brain, but you’re not. Your bias is leading the way.</p>

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<p>And almost 5 years later it is STILL happinging in Iraq, we got Saddam, so why are we still killing Iraqis…and why are they still dying every day</p>

<p>We are arrogant and yes, it was horrid that so many Americans died, but that does not give us the right to kill so many innocent people in the name of self protection</p>

<p>If we would at least say, yes, we killeds tens of thousand of Iraqis because those grannies were gonna attack us</p>

<p>but no, we won’t even admit to that</p>

<p>Vengence sure is sweet aint it</p>

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<p>From Citygirlsmom: “And almost 5 years later it is STILL happinging in Iraq, we got Saddam, so why are we still killing Iraqis…and why are they still dying every day”</p>

<p>Perhaps if Iran stop causing trouble in Iraq, so many Iraqis wouldn’t be dying. But let’s blame only America, ok?</p>

<p>I’m the first to say that the post-war period has been an utter debacle. But I still believe Saddam had to be removed from power. The sanctions were eroding by the day, corrupt officials at the UN were enabling Saddam, and God only knows what would have happened down the line. There are many, many Americans like me who are not Bush apologists who believe that the initial choice to go to Iraq was necessary.</p>

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<p>at least I understnad that Iraqi civilians did not attack us</p>

<p>I understand that Bin Laden, well Bush doesn’t care about him any more</p>

<p>i understand that we effed up Iraq very badly and know there is noendin site</p>

<p>Tell, me, zoosermom, you must have kids, if they are enlisted, I pray they are safe, but if not, would you encourage them to go</p>

<p>What is my bias, please, that I think we made a huge mess in Iraq, that we were given some “interesting” reasons for being there, that most Americans have the same "bias’ right now, that our government is clueless what to do, that we have no control whatsoever in Iraq, that we will be there FOREVER, that afghanistan is slipping and sliding backwards, that we have no credibilty around the world, that we refuse to talk to other governments (korea and iran), that we have the 5th year of record breaking deficets, that we my mom keeps having to pay more and more for her medications, I could go on…oh yeah, to bad SS was never privatized, cause stocks are going down on average</p>

<p>yeah, I am biased,you say that like its a bad thing to be biased against a government that isw, well, doing not the best job</p>

<p>call me biased that I don’t blindly want to follow Bush off the cliff</p>

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<p>Citygirlsmom posted: “We are arrogant”</p>

<p>Speak for yourself.</p>