<p>California does indeed have a Good Samaritan law for CPR/AEDs, etc., but it does not appear to apply to medical personnel. From what I could find in a brief search, the idea is that medical personnel would be covered by the hospital for liability. </p>
<p>Can’t imagine what it must have been like for the 911 operator on the other end of the line hearing the nurse refuse to provide CPR. </p>
<p>S2 said the 911 operator was very calm and supportive while he was giving me CPR. Like EPTR’s kids, my S also learned CPR while a summer camp counselor. The neurologist who saw me after my full arrest attributed immediate and continuous CPR as the reason I survived and am neurologically intact.</p>
<p>Yes, the survival rate of a patient given CPR is quite low. Like under 10% nationwide. But I would guess that survival rate for one who is not given CPR is even lower!</p>
<p>It sounds like the nurse and the facility had no legal or contractual duty to provide CPR. So a lawsuit against them probably would not be successful. OTOH, if the nurse did perform CPR and injured the resident in the process, she or her family might have a case against them. That is probably the reason for the policy. But I agree with boomting that performing CPR on this person would not have been the best thing.</p>
<p>@Emerald Kitty - that’s all very well and good, but the man in your link was (relatively) young, fit and healthy, and there’s no mention of any underlying heart conditions. There’s simply no comparing that situation with that of the elderly woman in the original post. </p>
<p>I’m very close to my grandmother (91), but if she collapsed tomorrow, would I want someone to perform CPR on her? Certainly not.</p>
<p>My mother, who is in her late 80’s, would NOT want CPR performed. She has made this very clear to me, her doctors, and the employees at the continuing care community where she lives.</p>
<p>Watched tv news coverage of this story this evening, and the woman’s daughter was quoted as saying she was satisfied with the level of care her mother received at the facility. While it sounds heartless, I can see the viewpoint that doing CPR on an 87-year-old might actually not be the humanitarian course of action. But then, why employ nurses at this facility if they won’t provide emergency medical care? Sad and troubling story.</p>
<p>Just reading the story doesn’t do it justice. Listening to the 911 call is eye-opening. Hearing the 911 operator absolutely beg the nursing home worker to just give the phone to someone else, any passerby, anyone at all…and being turned down. Wow. The worker sounded completely disinterested, dispassionate, bored. She couldn’t have cared one whit about this woman, it was as if she was an insect.</p>
<p>I understand, no matter how disgusting, that this woman didn’t want to risk anything to herself by breaking protocol by performing CPR (she knew how to do it, she said she was a nurse). But the refusal to allow anyone else to do it or talk to the 911 operator—that was shocking.</p>
<p>Performing CPR for a few minutes is not that difficult. My husband did it last year with only the training he had in boy scouts, on a young man with a rare heart malfunction, and definitely saved his life. Who are we to say that someone should be denied basic life-saving techniques just because they are elderly? Sure, it’s different if they are DNR, but maybe this woman would have liked to live a little longer. It’s not the same argument as extensive, painful and expensive procedures in a hospital.</p>
<p>This facility worker has absolutely no humanity. I wonder how she would feel if the same thing happened to her mother, her sister, or her child.</p>
<p>When my mother (in her 90’s) moved in to assisted living, there was a meeting to discuss “advance directive” or “DNR” - do not resuscitate, on the day she moved in. She, on my suggesting, after full discussion, asked to be DNR.</p>
<p>I am a physician. When someone in their late 80’s or 90’s has a cardiac arrest, their care does not stop with CPR. Intubation, feeding tubes, etc. can keep someone alive a long time, at great cost to the person, their family, and our health care system. Once a patient arrives at the hospital, it is very hard, even for the family, to seek approval from the court and ethics committees to turn these life support measures off, even if the family member is non-responsive. </p>
<p>The situation is very different for a young person, but my mother was very clear that she did not want to be kept “alive” in her 90’s on tubes. </p>
<p>It seems likely that the person this story is about would have also signed an advanced directive, since most facilities providing any kind of care to the elderly require this.</p>
<p>I moonlight as a home healthcare provider. It is ILLEGAL for us to do anything considered to be medical treatment - even putting a bandaid on a cut could get me imprisoned or fined. CPR would be a definite no no.</p>
<p>Guess I could get by on a technicality if I clocked out early and then started CPR…</p>
<p>“I am a physician. When someone in their late 80’s or 90’s has a cardiac arrest, their care does not stop with CPR. Intubation, feeding tubes, etc. can keep someone alive a long time, at great cost to the person, their family, and our health care system.”</p>
<p>Then why even bother to call 911? Why not just let them die on the floor, then call the morgue? It would save us all a lot of money. CPR is just one basic step to keep someone alive until help can arrive. It doesn’t equate to keeping someone alive through artificial means until infinity. My dad is an extremely healthy 83. Should someone purposefully ensure that no one was allowed to give him basic lifesaving treatment, they would regret it in a big way.</p>
<p>“I moonlight as a home healthcare provider. It is ILLEGAL for us to do anything considered to be medical treatment - even putting a bandaid on a cut could get me imprisoned or fined. CPR would be a definite no no.”</p>
<p>I am wondering exactly what kind of “healthcare” you are providing if you can’t even put on a bandaid. Is it also illegal for you to request that someone else help?</p>
<p>I wonder if your grandmother would feel the same way or if she would be okay with you making that decision for her. And before you answer, realize that another 91 year old might feel differently. </p>
<p>At what age do we decide that we should just let someone lay on the floor in cardiac arrest? 65? 78? 90?</p>
<p>My friend’s aunt is 85 years old and was having a heart attack while alone at home. She walked over to the neighbor’s house and asked him to drive her to the hospital two towns away. She didn’t want an ambulance to take her to the local hospital because her nephew is a doctor at the other hospital and she had her mind made up that was where she was going. The neighbor put her in his car and started driving. About halfway there she asked him to pull over, got out of the car, started vomiting and then lost consciousness. He somehow got her back in the car and drove her half a mile to a fire station, banged on the door and got a firefighter to start CPR. At that point they took her by ambulance to the hospital where her nephew was. She was in tough shape. Spent a week in the hospital, another two or three weeks in rehab and is now at home taking care of herself again.</p>
<p>She has quality of life, a loving extended family and a desire to live. I guess she’s lucky that nobody in that long chain of events decided FOR HER that it was best to just let her go.</p>
<p>I wonder if the facility even had an AED. I guess that is something I will check if my parents end up in a nursing home or AL facility, along with their rules on CPR. Using an AED is really quite simple – it tells you what to do at each step, and it certainly isn’t going to break any ribs. Might have been enough to help this woman…</p>
<p>I couldn’t find, but do any articles say whether residents are aware of that policy when they entered the facility? If they are and are satisfied with it then I see no problem.</p>
<p>I change diapers, feed, give baths, do housework, dress, assist with exercise, and the like (I keep joking about getting business cards that say I can clean you inside or out - give communion or a bath…).</p>
<p>PA state law prevents home health aids from doing any kind of medical assistance. It’s really touchy - we can hand a client a bottle of pills but not A pill, since that would be medicating them. We cannot administer eye drops. Cannot turn on an oxygen concentrator. Performing CPR is a definite no no. All clients are informed of these crazy regulations.</p>
<p>Since this was an assisted living facility, the “nurse” may not have been licensed, and as such, forbidden from doing CPR. Such facilities have special arrangements for passing out meds.</p>
<p>^^No, I haven’t, and I know two minutes would seem like forever, that is a lot of pressure and effort. But if other people are around and watching, you do it for awhile and have someone take over. Even if you aren’t CPR certified, I would think that would be something you would obviously learn in nursing school. But that wasn’t really my point. She certainly wasn’t willing to raise one finger to help this woman, but being unwilling to allow someone else to, is extraordinary to me.</p>
<p>“I couldn’t find, but do any articles say whether residents are aware of that policy when they entered the facility? If they are and are satisfied with it then I see no problem.”</p>
<p>Think of how many papers elderly people are having to sign when going to a facility. I sincerely doubt they were told that if they injured themselves, the staff would not lift a finger to help them, aside from calling 911. But they sure know now.</p>
Using an AED is really quite simple – it tells you what to do at each step, and it certainly isn’t going to break any ribs. Might have been enough to help this woman…</p>