NY Fast Food Minimum Wage Increase

Parent Cafe
61

It’s hard to directly compare a country to a city, as it’s reasonable for someone to live outside the city and commute in for work, while someone can’t really live in Germany and commute into Denmark for work.

If we’re going to try to compare a country to a city, we need to look at where within the city they’re going to live. NYC prices vary hugely from neighborhood to neighborhood. I don’t know how things vary in Denmark. And there’s also policy issues such as rent control.

Regardless, given the local purchasing power index is 165 in Denmark, that would imply that the minimum wage should be lower relative to pricing by 40%, as Denmark is richer than NYC. If we want to take the line that we want to directly compare NYC to Denmark, the appropriate minimum wage would have to be 40% lower than Denmark’s, so that would be $9.10/hr.

Edit: Looked it up. Denmark’s minimum wage is 103 DKK which is $15.18 at current exchange rates. Not $20.

62

@DrGoogle, you say you don’t think that CA is the US, but then you talk about students being paid to attend and going to CC first when fin aid for poor students isn’t nearly as good in most states and many CC systems aren’t as good for preparing students for 4-year colleges as CA’s.

BTW, CA has a little over 10% of the US’s population and in many/most respects is an outlier in the US.

63

[Quote ]
I’m very much against federal minimum wage increase and I’ll illustrate why in just two numbers.

Mississippi median wage: $13.76/hr
Connecticut median wage: $20.67/hr
[/quote ]

So therefore it’s perfectly acceptable that – in the richest country in the history of the world – millions of people can work full time and still live in poverty. Got it.

Just guessing, but I bet you’re opposed to any kind of government assistance for those same millions.

64

I don’t think I said that. I meant if finance is a problem attending CC and work part time like I did( the work part time) and like some of other friends of my daughter did. CC is still relatively cheap anywhere, compare to 4 year college. My daughter’s friend commute to a CC and work part time even though he did getting a UC in high school.

What you didn’t see is that UK May or may not have the same structure as USA.
CA maybe 10% of the US population because there are actually 50 states, it’s not hard to see. But it’s still one of the big states.

65

Against some and not against others.

Regardless, it’s completely irrelevant. Minimum wages are good but it’s a balancing act. If they’re raised too high there will be resulting high unemployment. If they’re too low there’s a dearth of domestic demand. Incomes are too different between the states to have one minimum wage for all states.

Also, just so people are arguing with the right numbers, CA has about 12% of the US population, not 10%.

66

Denmark has no national minimum wage. $20.00 per hour is the base wage for fast food workers in Denmark based on an agreement between a union and the company representing fast food corporations. NYC fast food workers are not better off than Danish ff workers which is why all of this is happening.

67

They made an agreement for a wage in USD?

In looking again, I’m seeing various numbers (103 DKK, 110 DKK, 115 DKK) for these negotiated “minimum” wages. 115 DKK is $16.93. $20 is 136 DKK.

68

NYC is a one off. It is ridiculously expensive, I get it, as I have a daughter that has been living there for the summer. Folks that live, lets say in Rochester, NY dont require 15/hr minimum wage. Thats the issue, if they wanted to limit it to NYC, thats one thing, but it should not have been mandated across the entire state. That is over a 70% increase in wages.

And again, what makes fast food workers, any more important than other minimum wage workers? Which I daresay, there are other industries that have far more adults working than fast food.

69

“If they’re raised too high there will be resulting high unemployment.”

Do you have stats to back that statement up?

"Folks that live, lets say in Rochester, NY dont require 15/hr minimum wage. Thats the issue, if they wanted to limit it to NYC, thats one thing, but it should not have been mandated across the entire state. That is over a 70% increase in wages.

And again, what makes fast food workers, any more important than other minimum wage workers? Which I daresay, there are other industries that have far more adults working than fast food."

That full increase doesn’t take effect outside of NYC until 2021. Yes, it is less expensive to live outside of NYC. I live in the Albany area. It is still a lot higher than in other parts of the country and our taxes are very high. As a percentage - upstate New Yorkers actually pay higher property taxes than downstate.

"When the Tax Foundation compared property taxes by county, New York counties consistently came in with the highest taxes. In fact, New York counties held nine spots on the top ten list of counties with the highest property taxes.

The county with the highest property taxes in the nation was Monroe County, New York where residents pay 2.89% of their home value in property taxes."

http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/Property-taxes-highest-lowest.htm

BTW, Rochester is in Monroe County.

The fast food workers mobilized. That is why that industry is the first one to get gov’t mandated min. wage increases. Perhaps those other workers need to mobilize, too. Now, if there were unions representing all these workers the unions would be able to do the negotiating for them with their particular industry. But, unions have been demonized in this country, so.

70

"They made an agreement for a wage in USD?

In looking again, I’m seeing various numbers (103 DKK, 110 DKK, 115 DKK) for these negotiated “minimum” wages. 115 DKK is $16.93. $20 is 136 DKK."

You sound to me like an apologist. When I point out figures were based on NYC indices suddenly you don’t want NYC to be included in this comparison. When I use sources such as McDonald’s Denmark, Statistics Denmark, The New York Times, and Business Insider, you don’t acknowledge their facts but throw out a few of your own.

A fast food worker in Denmark UNDER the age of 18 has a base hourly wage of only $15.00 per hour. A fast food worker in Denmark OVER the age of 18 has a base hourly wage of $21.00 per hour. In 2012, according to Statistics Denmark, the average fast food worker in the country earned $20.00 per hour and the average full-time ff worker earned $41,000.

The average Danish full-time McDonald’s ff worker earned $46,700 according to the company’s own records. The average New York City fast food worker earned $12,740 for working 28 hours a week.

71

Here is a recent article from Forbes on the effects of Seattles minimum wage increase to $15

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/03/16/we-are-seeing-the-effects-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage/

Some excerpts…

“Since the legislation was announced last summer, The Seattle Times and Eater have reported extensively on restaurant owners’ many concerns about how to compensate for the extra funds that will now be required for labor: They may need to raise menu prices, source poorer ingredients, reduce operating hours, reduce their labor and/or more.”

"As the implementation date for Seattle’s strict $15 per hour minimum wage law approaches, the city is experiencing a rising trend in restaurant closures. The tough new law goes into effect April 1st. The closings have occurred across the city, from Grub in the upscale Queen Anne Hill neighborhood, to Little Uncle in gritty Pioneer Square, to the Boat Street Cafe on Western Avenue near the waterfront.

The shut-downs have idled dozens of low-wage workers, the very people advocates say the wage law is supposed to help. Instead of delivering the promised “living wage” of $15 an hour, economic realities created by the new law have dropped the hourly wage for these workers to zero."

Again, Im not against an increase, but a 70% increase is too much.

72

Chipotle in SF is already raised price for the $15 minimum wage. But I can see SF is another high price location like NYC.

73

Only for adults over 20. Australia has a (very sensible, to me) carve out for teenagers, who start at ~$7.00 at age 16.

74

Why should Congress have to get involved to address something in New York State? Isn’t that up to the voters/legislators in NY to decide which industries to include/exclude?

75

Or, they’ll have fewer fast food restaurants, which perhaps is the idea all along, since regular restaurants are not effected… (Use the government taxing/pricing power to eliminate competition…)

76

Talking about minimum wage:
http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-price-gravity-payments-employees-leave-2015-7

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@CCDD14 I saw that article too. At $15 an hour, thats a starting teachers salary in some places. If restaurants are paying that, then other companies are going to have to raise their wages.

78

“Here is a recent article from Forbes on the effects of Seattles minimum wage increase to $15”

And here is the next article by the same author, which clarifies that the first article was a prediction, not based on any real statistical evidence. Now, one might agree with the authors predictions - but, imo, I think it’s too early to determine how it is all going to shake out.

the-rumpus-over-seattles-15-minimum-wage-and-restaurant-closures/

"A couple of days back I gleefully leapt on the story about restaurant closures in Seattle and the effects of that city’s higher minimum wage. There has been a certain pushback from various people to that idea and we might now be able to raise this from a discussion to a rumpus. Who knows, we might get lucky, a few more people join in and we can upgrade it to a brouhaha.

The most significant piece of the pushback comes from the Seattle Times who were kind enough to point out their piece to me:

As it stands now, the claim that these restaurants closed over the minimum-wage issue is false.

That is, they went and asked the owners of the restaurants that closed whether they had done so over the minimum wage and got the answer “No”. This isn’t, however, quite as much of a gotcha as one might think. Simply because the original article (as the Seattle Times itself points out) did not claim that these specific restaurants had closed as a result of the minimum wage. Rather, it used the fact that the restaurants were closing as a lead in to a discussion of the effects that a rise in the minimum wage would have. Which is also what I did, my major statement being this:

“Please do note though what is the prediction. Not that there’s going to be a wiping out of employment opportunities, nor that the economy of Seattle is going to become a howling wasteland. Rather, that less human labor will be employed at $15 an hour than would have been employed if the minimum wage had not risen to that amount.”

79

Even if restaurants don’t close it will raise cost for everybody, especially people who on fixed income like retiree, because the wage pressure. If it costs $20 to hire home care aid now, it will probably cost $30 when the minimum wage is $15.there is no way around. I don’t even eat at any of these fast food restaurants but I’ve already see the increase in labor that affect my family. My husband had a hair cut today and the price was raised 10% over the last time he went there. There was no reason, the price has been stable for years.

80

Sure. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/1/imposed-minimum-wage-hikes-hurt-economies-in-ameri/?page=all

(It’s an anecdote but I assume that’s what you were looking for)

I have no idea what you’re talking about. You can compare to NY State or the US as a whole, both of which include NYC. But it’s very difficult to compare directly a country and a city outside that country on cost of living.

We’re talking about minimum wage. At McDonalds and Taco Bell here they start at $9.50/hr (I see signs). Minimum wage is still $7.25. I don’t fully understand the system that exists in Denmark but I do know the minimum wage isn’t $20, or “effectively” $20. I’m also pretty damn sure they’re not getting paid in USD as you or someone else (forgot who) was trying to say either.

Well, first, are we comparing for 28 hours a week for each of them? Second, can you give me a source for that $12,740 number, because that indicates $8.75 an hour which is the literal minimum wage, meaning you’d be telling me the average wage for fast food in NYC is the minimum wage which I highly doubt. Third, let’s say we have comparable numbers, what relevance are you trying to attach exactly? This started as you replying to me that Denmark was a country with a $20/hr minimum wage, when I stated that no country had a $15/hr minimum wage and consumer prices similar to the US. You’ve failed to show that they have consumer prices similar to the US and have instead stated that it’s cheaper than NYC.

Or at least fewer chain restaurants. I’ve just been talking about the effects of normal minimum wage increases, as increasing for one occupation is not something I’ve ever heard of before.