This seems a pretty useless discussion to me, because it’s basically back and forth between people who think the minimum wage (whatever it is) is too low, and people who don’t like the idea of a minimum wage at all.
But sometimes it’s fun to watch the jockeying to become the valedictorian of the thread! :D/
“This seems a pretty useless discussion to me, because it’s basically back and forth between people who think the minimum wage (whatever it is) is too low, and people who don’t like the idea of a minimum wage at all.”
Like every other thread on CC (at least in the Parents Forum and Cafe.)
Anyhoo - I’m out of here for the day. My root canal has given me a screaming headache and reading is making it worse.
GL at at the dentist emily.
Most fast food joints are franchises…locally owned and operated. Sure, McD has plenty of company-owned stores, but they also have lotsa and lotsa franchisees.
My D’s good friend from high school worked at her dad’s Quizno’s to help make ends meet. It was his only shop, but if in NYC, he would have had to pay his help a whole lot more bcos they are considered a ‘national’ chain.
His was a “small business”…but no carve out for him.
Here is an interesting commentary on the subject.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2015/07/15-dollar-minimum-wage-harm-economy-holzer?utm_campaign=Brookings+Brief&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20980854&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_hNwBJlCb7NZqOW0vNCv_ooGhpfLDRPmJRhZJmSEl_OipqGPKdvZEKtmf6HNoOQSrPjmQi5thxDTWAQQ9h2mOfoH6ZRUjMSyOHnZeJ47IYyGQ27K8&_hsmi=20980854
I am well aware of FF franchisees as my dads company was one.
If a franchisee can’t afford to pay their employees a living wage they should get out of the business. Sorry, but I don’t feel badly for any business which doesn’t pay a decent wage to its workers. Businesses who don’t raise their min wage are going to lose workers to those that do. That is why oncd Walmart raised their wage, Target, TJX, etc., raised theirs.
“But sometimes it’s fun to watch the jockeying to become the valedictorian of the thread!”
Hope you have fun doing tonight’s homework which is ranking every countries fast food workers by base wages and the number of times they were tardy. 
“This seems a pretty useless discussion to me,”
Come back here in 2018 when recent college grads from Columbia and St. Johns have to flip burgers due to the struggling NY State economy due to the new fast food worker base wages.
Even Governor Donald Trump won’t be able to figure out why NYC sanitation workers are all making more than him and his kids.
What if the minimum wage is enough for a single person to support himself, but not a wife and family? Should the FF places then get to say “Oh, we will pay $8/hr but only hire singles with no kids because we want to pay a living wage, but we can’t pay more to someone just because he has a wife and 3 kids. And we only give everyone 20 hours a week because we can’t afford to pay health insurance.” Would that be okay?
There are members of the military who qualify food stamps and other benefits because they have a lot of kids or other special circumstances. Why should McDonalds be held to a higher standard?
I do adjust my expectations of customer service to the store I’m at. At the thrift store that supports and hires special needs employees, it’s not a big deal to wait a bit longer for assistance or to help the cashier make change. If I’m at Walmart, my expectations are lower than at my regular grocery store because Walmart hires at a lower rate and some of the employees are not up to working somewhere else. I don’t have so much patience if I’m at a store where I’m paying more. If I go to McDonalds and I’m paying a dollar more for the meal than I was paying last week, I expect more -faster, hotter, cleaner.
This does not only apply to the minimum wage or hourly workers, but to ANY position where the pay is not connected to production ROI of said position.
If you pay anyone a false number above their ROI, the entire company suffers because, as you said, first and foremost you create low morale among the more productive people.
There is also another effect which is the more productive clients understand that their costs have to be raised in any event, regardless of what management says. The irony is that these clients are the most productive because they often strictly price and pay by ROI, and thus their prices are the most attractive and efficient per unit. And replacing those clients cannot happen fast enough to stop the drain and then downwards the company heads real fast.
And the final blow is the math cannot work over time. Short-term, sure, but long-term, the company will drain its resources paying for unproductive labor - no way at all to make that up, as it is a constant negative compounding hourly. Pretty much the same effect as a negative interest rate on your money in the bank.
Case-in-point is the “genius” of the $70K minimum salary schtick.
(Bolded emphasis mine)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/1/dan-price-seattle-ceo-who-set-company-minimum-wage/
I agree though that this is a merry-go-round thread because it is interesting to see people who do not have to write the checks and actually make the money that writes the checks think they know what to takes to write the check. Hilarious actually. It is really just employees complaining that the company would be better if they ran it, but they themselves do not have the skills or know how to run it.
I wish all the people who think they know how to structure wages and pay them would just stop complaining and go out and run your own company and see if you can put into action what you say. But, they won’t do that because it is much, much easier to be a complainer than the person in taking the decisions and responsible for the company revenue and bills.
I’d like to hear from some folks who own businesses that employ part-time and full-time minimum wage employees.
At what income does a single person with no dependents qualify for food stamps?
I can see why raising the minimum wage for everyone doesn’t make sense when the real concern is the smaller number who are raising kids on their own.
first of all, we need to do a better job requiring BOTH parents to support their kids.
secondly, things like tax credits for low income families target raising the bottoms for those people w/o raising the wages of others.
My guess is that the reason other industries were not included in the New York legislation is because the Restaurant Associations in NY provide a lot more voting constituents (i.e. owners and their lobbyists) than restaurant corporations that are based in other states. Sure, the local McDonald’s franchisee is probably a local resident, but for all practical purposes he or she represents a large out-of-town corporation, which is easier to exploit politically. And of course the fast-food corporations have taken many hits recently; ‘super size me, 16oz sugary sodas, etc.’ They have become everybody’s whipping boy. An easy target that often really can’t fight back.
There are many more pizzerias in New York State than there are McDonalds, Wendy’s or Burger Kings or Subway Sandwich shops. Why should they be exempt? There are tons of diners (think of the SNL skit a generation ago) in all the boroughs of New York City where you could order and be served in about 15 minutes. Why should they be exempt? What is the definition of fast food in the legislation?
I like another question someone asked earlier; why shouldn’t food workers at nursing homes and elsewhere get the same increase?
I think the definition of fast food is food you pay for before you are served. So I wonder why grocery stores that sell pre-made sandwiches aren’t included?
“I have no idea what you’re talking about. You can compare to NY State or the US as a whole, both of which include NYC. But it’s very difficult to compare directly a country and a city outside that country on cost of living.”
The chart you gave us a link for had no trouble comparing the New York City cost of living numbers with dozens of other nations. It even used NYC as the indices. It’s not very difficult.
“We’re talking about minimum wage. At McDonalds and Taco Bell here they start at $9.50/hr (I see signs). Minimum wage is still $7.25. I don’t fully understand the system that exists in Denmark but I do know the minimum wage isn’t $20, or “effectively” $20. I’m also pretty damn sure they’re not getting paid in USD as you or someone else (forgot who) was trying to say either.”
There’s no reason to use curse words. I’m pretty sure even a fast food worker could convert Danish krones into US Dollars for you. BTW according to McDonald’s their full-time employees in Denmark are averaging over $22.00 per hour in wages. If you still are skeptical then google “McDonald’s fast food workers in Denmark” and count how many times $20 per hour pops up.
The astute fast food franchise owner in NY will adapt, improvise, and overcome. They already had a warm up to this when NY State raised the minimum wage awhile ago. I think I know how I would handle it. Other posters suggested reasons why this business segment was singled out and what might or not happen. Let’s wait and see.
True enough. Unfortunately for the fast food workers who supported this move, the way those owners will adapt is to switch as much of their operation as possible to automation. A number of chain restaurants are already experimenting with automation. For example, Taco Bell has an app that allows you to place your order by smartphone, and Chiles has touch screens on their tables that allow customers to pay for their meals. Combine those two technologies and you’ve eliminated, or at least greatly reduced, the need for employees at the counter.
I disagree with posters like Emilybee, who argue that employers owe their employees a “living wage.” An employer’s only moral obligation it is to pay its employees what their labor is worth. The problem for fast food employees is that their labor isn’t worth much. Fast food work is extremely low skilled work. It’s a fine job for high school kids who are learning about the work world, and its a decent second job for people who are trying to supplement their primary income, but it’s not the kinds of job that can support a family.
If you want to lift fast food workers out of poverty, you need to focus on the source of their poverty - their lack of job skills. Raising the minimum wage for fast food workers doesn’t help them in the long run. It just makes them more expensive, creating an incentive for franchise owners to automate.
Not only automate but to hire better qualified people. So that the person looking for a first job is less likely to be hired.
When it’s time to pay college tuition, NYC parents post about how difficult it is to get by on a 6-figure income in such a high cost of living area and lament that colleges don’t give them tuition breaks because of it. Yet when people in the same city ask for a wage increase of a few dollars an hour, that’s too much. If people can live on less that $13k in NYC, I don’t see why colleges should give any discounts to the higher income families. Obviously, they can get by on much less.
If the worry is solely about families making minimum wage, there’s much more sensible ways to improve their lives, such as subsidized daycare for all, which is what’s done in France. But making minimum wage decisions based on the idea of improving the lives of minimum wage earners is misguided. Compassion doesn’t change economic reality. Minimum wages exist to help with domestic demand, they’re kept at reasonable levels to prevent unemployment.
If they’re not being paid in USD then their wages aren’t $22/hr or $20/hr. They’re X DKK an hour. I want to know that X number. Please let me know because the only numbers I could find were 103, 110, and 115, none of which equate to $20 or $22/hr.
I haven’t seen anyone come out against the idea of a minimum wage at all in this topic.
Do you guys go to Wawa ever?
How many employees do you think each one of their ordering machines put out of business?
btw the machines are great!
In the aggregate, the answer is none, and the machines increase jobs and wages overall.
Focusing on only a singular job type misses the more important picture, which is overall increased production - the goal of any growing economy (and with a growing population, a growing economy is must have, or else a depression ensues).
- The machines increase wages in the economy in the aggregate because it requires more education to service them, and thus the pay scale for the people who service the machines is triple or more what Wawa workers are paid. That is a good thing. Now, if Wawa developed the system in house, then it is even better, as it is Wawa employees benefit directly.
- You hit the nail on the head - the machines are great because they are so darn efficient and easy to use. Efficiency increases ROI and allows Wawa to be more profitable.
- More profitable means the opening of more Wawa stores - all which need the requite number of low skills workers to handle basic things. There is your resulting increased employment of low-skilled workers.
- However, it is better than just low-skilled increases because a new store brings the machines and everything else with it and the tax base of the area is increased.
So, it does not take much to deduce that the replacement of the minimal skilled workers by the machines easily cascades into a larger multiple of low-skilled workers employed over time because of increased ROI. There is no economic magic here - an increase in ROI and profits leads to more jobs and higher wages; not necessarily an increase in the same jobs, but the salary basis increases throughout the economy - and that is a good thing.