<p>Okay, I know the thread has gone crazy, but the Pomona fight is one I can’t resist. If you want stats, POIH, look here: [College</a> Admissions Advice - The Choice Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/]College”>http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/) and you’ll find a nice chart with admit rates. Amherst isn’t reported, but Pomona, at 14.4% admit rate, is the most selective LAC in the country, according to the chart. More selective than Duke, Chicago and Cornell, virtually the same as Penn. Only the top 7 Ivies, MIT and Stanford rank higher. But the most important point has already been made: Pomona has a highly self-selecting applicant pool. You don’t see the prestige mongers throwing applications at Pomona (or MIT, I would guess), so the real acceptance rate means something different from the tiny percentage accepted by schools like Harvard, who sent a full booklet including their paper app to every student I know! And made them think they had a chance of admission!</p>
<p>As for the student bloggers, they all sound trite. I think the most interesting thing about Paik’s story is that she seems not to have gotten the best advice about her list.</p>
<p>"I don’t think the ability to be a deep or insightful thinker is valued as much as the ability and ambition to get yourself in a professional publication such as the NYT. "</p>
<p>The quality of writing would count a great deal because in addition to colleges highly valuing excellent writers and critical thinkers, colleges know that simply having good personal connections could get a high school student an opportunity to write a blog for the NY Times. I bet that what happened was that some Times editor thought it would be a great idea to have some high school students blog about their college application experiences, and then asked around the newspaper for suggestions about seniors who could handle that responsibility. </p>
<p>This is very different than what happens when high school students submit articles on their own that get published by newspapers. One of my friends-- a middle aged Washington Post copy editor – got his start in journalism when he submitted a travel article about his western hometown to either the Washington Post or NY Times. The paper published it, having no idea that the author was a high school student. That’s probably one of the things that helped him get into Columbia as an undergrad.</p>
<p>Learning is a continuous process and only those learn who are open to it. Bashing on the first opportunity will keep you in dark no matter how much you try.</p>
<p>Anyway, first find out the acceptance rate of Pomona applicant with > 2300 SAT1 before equating it to HMSPY.</p>
<p>Also make sure you understand what constitute a safety and it is not an absolute term. A safety for one can be reach for another applicant.</p>
<p>I’ve said it before, but I think it bears repeating–there is not a singular style of “good” writing, and one’s person’s opinion (yours, mine, or anyone else’s) does not constitute a final judgment on the quality of a piece or a person’s writing talent as a whole. Do I believe there are good and bad writers and good or bad writing? Yes. But it’s not a simple judgment.</p>
<p>While I was interviewing for grad school, one of my interviewers said, “Your personal statement is wonderful. It answers every question I could think to ask you. I often give my students suggestions on their writing, but I can’t think of a thing that I would tell you to change.” Was that nice to hear? Yes. Do I think everyone who read my SOP would think the same thing? No. </p>
<p>I TA’ed for a professor a couple of semesters ago who had–and has, as far as I can tell–a great deal of respect for my writing and editing skills (and vice versa, of course). On most student essays, we agreed, but there was one particular essay that I really liked and she thought was of mediocre quality. Writing can be judged, yes, but it’s not a simple or entirely objective judgment.</p>
<p>Re post #168: The common data set does not include information as to admission rates broken down by test scores, so unless a college chooses to publish that data, it is impossible to determine. Since you haven’t provided any links for your assertions, I assume that you can’t back it up. </p>
<p>Neither Pomona nor any other highly selective college use test scores as a way of determining admission; test scores are merely one factor among many. College ad coms are well aware of the limitations of the test --they look at test scores in the context of individual applicants and may use the test scores to shed light on other issues.</p>
<p>All those who wants to make Pomona as selective as HMSPY need to provide data that indicates acceptance rate of Pomona of applicants with SAT1 > 2300 is similar to HMSPY.</p>
<p>My analysis says the acceptance rate of such applicants at Pomona is > 60% hence it makes Pomona safety for such applicants.</p>
<p>FWIW, I’ve written a couple of books and in one way or another have written for a living my entire life. I saw nothing wrong in the writing of the NYT blogger. I assume that the NY Times would have wanted students who seemed to speak in an “authentic” voice for a teenager – if the writing seemed too sophisticated for a kid, it would have defeated the purpose of the blog. The books I wrote were nonfiction geared for a mass market, and my publisher had a style book that was very clear on their guidelines – I could have written a far more academic version of the same content, but they wanted a specific tone. So, for example, I was asked to write in the 2nd person (referring to the reader as “you”, to their concerns as “your”), I suppose because that seemed more friendly and encouraging than a book written in the 3rd person (“they”). </p>
<p>My d. is a capable writer who has often been complimented on her writing by her college profs. But her academic writing doesn’t look like her blogs – she blogs occasionally, and her posts are hilarious, sarcastic, and often profane. But the “voice” she adopts is very different than the “voice” used for her academic writing.</p>
<p>When my d. applied to colleges, she opted for a light and humorous, almost flippant, tone for most of her essays. She applied to U of Chicago with an essay that was mostly a spoof (written in the tone of an article in The Onion). She was accepted. She later compared her essay with other Chicago applicants on CC, and unfortunately many of the other students turned in essays that were almost unreadable because of clear effort to impress – they were wordy and pretentious, clearly written with the intent of proving themselves worthy of Chicago’s heady intellectual environment. Many of those student were also accepted. The essay is notoriously important for Chicago admissions, but that doesn’t mean that the ad com expect perfect writing. </p>
<p>I’m writing this not to boast, but simply to point out that blog writing is not the same as academic writing, and it certainly is not the kiss of death for a capable student to submit an essay that adapts a light tone. </p>
<p>Personally, I find most academic writing to be turgid. To me, the essence of good writing is clarity. That can be accomplished through a variety of writing styles and voices.</p>
<p>POIH, I’m not impressed with your imaginary “analysis”. If you have data to support your claims, I suggest that you cite it. If the overall acceptance rate at Pomona is currently 14%, it is highly unlikely that any cohort other than development cases or recruited athletes have a 60% acceptance rate. But even a 60% acceptance rate within a cohort would not make the school a “safety”. – 60% is “match” because it means that chances are only slightly better than 50/50 that the student would be admitted.</p>
<p>Back in Post 149, in response to one of your unsubstantiated assertions about acceptance rates for Princeton applicants with scores above 2300, I cited data from Pomona’s and Princeton’s CDSes. The CDS is THE source of official information about a college’s admissions criteria and rates. It does does not break down admissions rates according to test score brackets. </p>
<p>Where did you get the data for your “analysis?” </p>
<p>And yes, of course, one kid’s reach is another’s safety. But a school with a 14% acceptance rate is no one’s safety – not even someone who winds up getting into MIT.</p>
<p>On the upside the kids who work so hard to become the kind of students who can be admitted to top schools have great success where ever they end up.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It is obviously not as selective. The admission rate at Pomona is 16% and the admission rates at HMSPY is close to 7%. But it is still very difficult to be admitted. A safety school is a subjective term, I’m hard pressed to think of a school like Pomona as a safety school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What if the applicant to Pomona with a 2320 SAT is also a murderer? Do you still maintain they are guaranteed admission to Pomona?</p>
<p>Wjb, don’t you know that everything that happens at Harker is a complete microcosm of every other Hs in the country? It’s sort of the anti Las Vegas – “what happens at Harker gets extrapolated to everywhere.”</p>
Actually, I’ve observed what good they can cause. For a kid who has floated through high school, to learn that you have to do a bit more than good enough, was a fine lesson. Or that it’s fine to do what you want in life, but that may not be what ___ is looking for. My older son received three rejections and a waitlist, my younger son three rejections. Neither was harmed.</p>
<p>How in the world is any child to be guaranteed a life without rejection? </p>
<p>There are some easy ways to avoid rejection: </p>
<p>1) Attempt only things that are easy. </p>
<p>2) Attempt nothing at all. </p>
<p>3) Purposely “throw” the process before the decision has been made. </p>
<p>On my part, I know people who have rarely attempted to do something difficult with an uncertain result, and I know people who have often attempted to do difficult things–and who have often been “beaten” by someone else in the process. The people who attempt more are successful more often over the course of life. My observation is that more regret, for most thoughtful people, is bound up in never trying at all than in trying and failing. And there is research to back up this idea. </p>
<p>Most young people who have been rejected by colleges they applied to bounce back from that experience much more rapidly than adults who have ego bound up in their children’s college admission process. Rejection is probably never an initially pleasant experience, but that doesn’t mean it has to be a personally devastating or even net harmful experience.</p>
<p>I’ve had two kids in the admissions process over the last four years. Neither seems the least bit scarred by the acceptances they did not receive. Au contraire – by the time some of them rolled in, my kids had already concluded it was the school’s loss, not theirs. They were glad they applied to their lists of schools, regardless of the results, mainly because each school on the list was there for a specific, personal reason. </p>
<p>By the same token, I’m also glad my kids got a healthy share of Bs in high school – they both know what it’s like to bust their tails and not get an A. They are prepared for the reality of college. IMO, better that they learn to “hit the wall” and figure out how to cope/advocate/seek out resources while in HS than when they are in college without as many supports.</p>
<p>POIH, I know you desperately want your daughter – undoubtedly very smart and talented – to achieve prestige. But can we clue you in on a little secret here?</p>
<p>The people who think that prestige primarily or only consists of getting into HYPSM – and that the LAC’s or other top universities are all just a step down in selectivity and are merely the consolation prizes – aren’t the “prestigious,” “elite” people you so want your daughter to have a place among.</p>
<p>The people who aren’t in the know are the ones who consider HYPSM the pinnacle of human achievement and everything else sloppy seconds. The people who ARE in the know are just as impressed by, and pleased with, the Amhersts and Williams and Pomonas and Davidsons and Haverfords and so forth. </p>
<p>There’s nothing elite about being one of the people who chase the same 5 schools. There’s far more elitism in recognizing the hidden gems. Don’t be a wannabe!</p>
And you too Pea, sorry I jumped on one of your posts earlier.</p>