<p>It might be difficult to change people’s behavior regarding cheating as long as the risks versus reward ratio remains an interesting proposal. While it is understandable that the College Board and ETS have difficulties curbing the organized cheating, it also remains that some of their policies are mindboggling. Despite owning an incredibly deep library of tests and questions, TCB/ETS continues to reuse tests. </p>
<p>As you will hear from well-informed sources, at least one version of today’s international tests was also given exactly one year ago (October 2010.) For some perspective, the administration of that test was already questionable as it was a repeat of a 2008 domestic test. This type of repetition has a tremendous impact on the most difficult parts of the test, especially the verbal components that usually challenge foreign testers. </p>
<p>Considering that only the most naive party is oblivious to the fact that almost ALL tests (released or not) are widely available (at a price) from companies dedicated to “tutor” students in jurisdiction where legal enforcement is difficult to impossible, one has to wonder why ETS/TCB remains so cavalier in using prior tests. </p>
<p>A cynic might consider ETS’ administration of tests in foreign countries as a direct invitation to abuse the integrity of the tests. </p>
<p>No matter how one looks at it, the cheating DOES hurt all students.</p>
<p>Get off your high horse. I would expect each student to be upright and honest. But when you are dealing with populations, you have to have LOGISTICS and MECHANISMS. Don’t we all are expected to be honest citizens? But this does not dissuade the IRA from auditing. </p>
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<p>No, I am not ashamed of having a different (and I would say, more realistic) understanding of the social dynamics around tests that are administered internationally. </p>
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<p>There is something called American exceptionalism, right? The foreigners are scumbags.</p>
<p>I am afraid that you will change your opinion later in life and probably come to regret stating this on a public forum. The French have a beautiful say, namely “Qui vole un oeuf volera un boeuf.” Translated, it means “who steals an egg will steal a cow.” </p>
<p>Have you considered the impact of colleges refusing to consider scores from “suspect” countries or ETS deciding to abandon offering tests in countries where rampant cheating cannot be eliminated? Decisions, which by the way, are LONG overdue! </p>
<p>Fwiw, there are no reasons to sugarcoat the fact that ETS/TCB do have a responsibity in offering incentives to cheat, but let’s not pretend that the ultimate responbility for honesty is in the hands of the cheaters, who have NO excuse.</p>
<p>xiggi post #141 provides very nice background for understanding what’s actually going on. </p>
<p>Many students buy SAT prep books (yes, including those available at Barnes & Nobel) and enroll in prep classes not simply to study the subject content, but also hope to encounter enough questions they will actually see on the test they take. How different is that than scouting the internet for possible test questions? And you say one is morally justifiable and another is not? </p>
<p>There is a distinction between scouting information BEFORE the test (yes, even on the internet) vs. having someone take the test for you, or beaming radio signal into your wrist watch during the test, etc. None of those is the preferred route; countless people have shown one can get a 2400 SAT by totally relying on their learned knowledge. But test is a practical thing and students are not scored on their moral values (however pizzagirl defines them). Setup the test the best way you can, define what is cheating, and have mechanisms to enforce the rules. If it is not acceptable for people to take advantage (unfair, yes) of the time zone arbitrage, close the loophole! Other than that, leave the test takers alone for how to prepare.</p>
<p>What is clearly missing is any penalty from CB for cheating. There is none. Zero, zip, zilch. Sure in the extremely rare high profile cases, action is taken, but in most cases, scores just get cancelled. So the cheater signs up later. </p>
<p>Ditto no penalty for cheating on a TOEFFL. A grad school could always reissue the test once the student arrives onshore, but what if s/he fails it? Is the grad program willing to send them home? Not likely. </p>
<p>The point is that CB purposely looks the other way, as do the colleges.</p>
<p>And of course, the Score Choice policy is a license to cheat. Heck, one of the untold reasons why CB cancelled score choice a years ago was because it makes it so easy to cheat, particularly on subject tests. (Plenty of descriptions on how to easily cheat on ST’s only a few clicks away on google.)</p>
<p>To older Chinese of mine and jaylynn’s generation who subscribed to inherited Confucian scholar-gentry ideals…the defining characteristic of a genuinely moral and ethical person is that he/she acts morally/ethically EVEN IN THE ABSENCE of any laws or in the knowledge no one else is watching and he/she can “get away with it”.</p>
<p>Humm, I think I am failing at “explaining” what is going on, especially the part about the vast differences in buying a book at Barnes and Noble and participating in organizing cheating. There is a huge differences in obtaining tests that have been released officially by the College Board and obtaining tests via highly questionable mechanisms.</p>
<p>Then close the loophole. Don’t just say “by the way, there is a backdoor, but please don’t use it”. To be sure, most people won’t, but don’t be surprised a few of them do.</p>
<p>Nice, haddon. I signed a contract with an overseas firm to deliver x services for a price of $y. I delivered high quality work and did so three weeks ahead of schedule to try to please my client. Every bill that I have sent is met with a run around and claims that I need to submit even more paperwork. Then they go dark on me. The latest is that our contract explicitly states that our travel expenses are to be paid at cost. In July I incurred $23k worth of travel expenses to and from China, all dutifully itemized and absolutely nothing that would be excessive. Now, they refuse to reimburse me and say that they only want to pay $18k because, well, that’s all they want to pay. It matters not that we signed a contract in good faith that explicitly lays out what they agreed to pay. They don’t care. Oh meanwhile, can I do followup work for them, on the double? You’re darn right I’m annoyed, because I dealt in good faith.</p>
<p>Sounds like the foxes are guarding the henhouse and you are just fine with that, Haddon.</p>
<p>My DH was doing consulting for an asian firm a few years back. Every agreement/contract was signed and very clear. Had the same experience PG described above with lots of stalling on payments, excuses, lack of response, “the check is in teh mail” etc. So of course he finally said he was not doing any further work for them, and this was right before som very important meetings where they were wanting to leverage my DH’s resources and contacts to try to win a bery big contract. Surprise. The payments were overnighted to him fromt heir NJ office. Sure this happens with lots of companies, including US companies. It just wasn’t as blatant when he worked with other companies.</p>
<p>It’s much more than a simple issue of morality. I don’t care how moral you are, but it’s extremely difficult to get anything done in China without resorting to some form of bribery or “dishonesty” as you would consider them here in the U.S., because rules and regulations are not keeping up with the speed with which the society is changing.</p>
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<p>It does. But I wouldn’t necessarily label those students as immoral, but more as embracing the system and accepting what is told to them. There is no extensive, organized “extracurricular activity” of the kind common in the US and writing college admission essays is not something that students from China are familiar with, so the students, almost all coming from family with money, hire agents to package their applications. Or their parents do. It’s not uncommon for applicants, at the prompting of their parents and hired agent, to put down awards that are completely fabricated or claim some title that never existed until their father’s company or some other connection created the position just for him.</p>
<p>Not saying that this is the case with the majority, but plenty cheat the system and were rewarded with college acceptances. I would even say that it’s impossible for the smart, hardworking working class kids in China to even think about applying abroad. They can’t afford the tuition or even know where to start to apply.</p>
<p>Some US citizens, even officers of the law, believe that, as well.</p>
<p>My 8 year old D and I jumped for 2 minutes into a store to pick up a snack on the way to ballet… Car doors were LOCKED, windows open a crack for air for pooches, our two scary looking dogs sitting inside the car. LIterally 2 min later, we returned to car and saw two boys rushing off, throwing my purse on the ground. I was incredulous, but watched as they joined up at the corner with a larger group of boys. They had smashed the window in to help themselves to my purse. Fortunately for me, I had my wallet with me to pay for the snack.
I immediately called the police to report the crime, the damage to my car, AND to alert them that a gang of boys was running around looking for trouble.</p>
<p>Guess what the officer responded? That it was my fault for leaving my purse in the car!
I was livid. He also did nothing to help any future victims in the area, did not care to take down any info.</p>
<p>What is going on in this world? We are not a bunch of animals competing for things to survive. Where is honor, integrity, cooperation? In the USA, we pay taxes and have the right to vote to support systems and agencies to help create and enforce laws that reflect our society’s morality.
Cripes.
The moral relativism of haddon and those who agree with him is sickening.</p>
<p>Look to your heart. And know that its purity or lack thereof will reflect onto those around you. And, watch out for KARMA!</p>
<p>Sure, you can scorn. And sorry the world is more complicated than you can bear. To be honest, trickery and shortcuts in college application does not make into my top 10 list of the things I am really mad at.</p>
<p>Sorry, I haven’t had time to read this whole thread, but I just received a private message asking me to post a link to my blog entry on this subject:</p>
<p>Success in life is all about equalizing the advantages other people have. Whether it’s the Nigerian student that got his hand on the instructor manual, the fraternity kid who has last year’s tests, the guy with access to the Malaysian student association Comp Sci assignments archive (magnetic tape :-)) or the very rich Lebanese guy that paid to have assignments done in Comp Sci (a very, ehem, profitable business :-)) it all works out.</p>
<p>Eventually Cajun State caught on to it, and the value of programming assignments dropped from 30-50% of your grade to 20% with more emphasis on tests. Good luck with that. By the time I was getting out of grad school the quality of undergrad programmers had dropped precipitously, mostly because assignments we did individually three years earlier were now assigned to a team of 3-4 people… For the same class.</p>
<p>Or, we can take my HS’s approach and not return tests (because they reuse them). </p>
<p>Life is all about equalizing advantages. It seems the Chinese have figured it out faster than other peoples.</p>
<p>That’s why we don’t run stop signs in the middle of nowhere at night. I believe most people behave this way. I also believe that most Chinese are moral and ethical like that, but this thread paints them otherwise and that’s unfortunate. What Pizzagirl and jym626’s H experienced is terrible and unacceptable.</p>