<p>To Glorious Ambition:</p>
<p>I think you have the right attitude. Don’t be swayed by what I say either. Use your own judgement, ask questions, don’t take what you are told at face value. Think critically. I would be very interested to hear about your experiences and impressions from your Candidates Weekend.</p>
<p>Plotinus wrote:
“For example, I read on a blog that the interviews at the current Candidates Weekend are being conducted by the ex-foreign minister of Greece.”</p>
<p>Oh, you mean Stavros Lambrinidis? My daughter had lunch with him today. I didn’t realize he was conducting interviews. I don’t think he is. I thought he was only there to give a lecture.</p>
<p>So, do you believe all professors at Penn State had their reputations ruined, because they are having a scandal now, too? Do you think nothing valuable is learned from people who have experienced scandal?</p>
<p>I’m not sure why you are intent on, for lack of a better phrase, hating on NYUAD. I mean, I understand that you want to vet a school for your child. That is universal. But all kids are different. My daughter turned down Yale, because NYUAD appealed to her more. All the things about Yale that spoke to me - the reputation, the campus, the prestige - didn’t carry a whole lot of weight for her. She didn’t understand why kids were on facebook during a lecture, for example. I said that wasn’t fair, probably there are kids on facebook in a lecture on every college campus. NYUAD felt like her community. The kids, I don’t know what their SAT scores are - all I know is that she felt a little intimidated at first that she was not as smart or as confident as they were, and she had a perfect score.</p>
<p>Some kids want different things. She didn’t want the Greek life or spending Saturdays at football games or huge research universities where you get to know your professor during maybe your Junior year. We would have picked Yale or UChicago (she had other full scholarships), because it’s the safe thing to do. But she had made great decisions for herself all along, and we felt she had the right to make this one, too. She has not regretted it for one moment.</p>
<p>I know your intentions are good. I just hope you see that not everyone is looking for the same things as you.</p>
<p>To GrnMtnMom:</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your message. I never said that I believe Yale would be a better choice than NYUAD for every student. Indeed, I am extremely interested in learning the reasons your daughter had for preferring NYUAD to Yale. If I have understood you correctly (and please correct me if I have misunderstood), your daughter is not interested in the SAT scores of her fellow students, or the research and publications records of the faculty. She also thinks Yale is too big and does not like the fact that students there go on Facebook during the lectures (I agree that is pretty bad!). And what she likes about NYUAD is the feeling of community, of being part of a family? So she likes that fact that it is so tiny? I agree it might be difficult to find the same kind of close family environment found in a school with 160 people per class at a school the size of Yale.</p>
<p>I am not sure whether Lambrinidis was conducting interviews, but that is what I read. You would have to check with the students who attended the Candidates Weekend, or with NYUAD admissions, to verify this.</p>
<p>Assuming that he really was conducting interviews, why do you think NYUAD asked him to do this? And why do you think he agreed to do it? It is not usual for universities to ask former heads of state of foreign countries to interview their candidates, and it is not exactly a usual job for an ex-Greek foreign minister to interview high school students for an American university (or any university).</p>
<p>From what I know of the opinion of EU citizens about the last two Greek governments, I don’t think any member of either of these would be able to give a lecture at a university in Europe (much less to hold a government position). I don’t think people hold professors at Penn State responsible for sexual molestation by a football coach. But people in Europe hold the last two Greek governments responsible for falsifying their budgets for years and for seriously compromising the economies of Europe.</p>
<p>At this point, I find it very hard to believe that Plotinus is a parent of a student who is even remotely interested in NYUAD. As a matter of fact, I’ll go out on a limb and speculate that Plotinus does not have a child that fits that description, but, like the earlier poster (who admitted as much), is someone who holds a grudge against the program or has a vested interest in it not succeeding. For someone who supposedly is just seeking information, she/he sure seems to have an anti-NYUAD agenda. </p>
<p>I have no pony in this race (my daughter will be attending NYU in NYC in the fall) but hope people will stop engaging someone who in all likelihood is not who they say they are. And if I am wrong, my sincerest apologizes to you Plotinus. I think you would be better served contacting the school with your questions/complaints–or–moving on. You don’t want your child in this program, so why continue to talk about and focus on it?</p>
<p>To Gradygrad:</p>
<p>I have no vested interests and no grudges against NYUAD. I certainly would not want NYUAD or any other university to fail, and I don’t see how posting the questions I have could do anything in that direction or serve an agenda. My only agenda is fact-finding about the relative advantages and disadvantages of NYUAD in comparison to other universities. I have learned a great deal from this forum and am very thankful to all those who have helped me. If you think I have said things about NYUAD that are inaccurate, inappropriate, or disrespectful, please correct me and I will be very grateful for it.</p>
<p>I really love following this thread and it has become more interesting because of the comments recently by Plontinus, Cardgames , GrnMntMom and others. The whole SAT scores issue goes beyond me though. Other countries go by different tests/study grades/performance evaluations - and those students do not have to take a SAT - they do have to take the TOEFL test though to evaluate their knowledge of english/american language, since that is the language used in the classes. Who is to say that their assessments are less than the SAT. And yes, NYUAD tries to get as many as possible candidates. They are a new school and need to establish their credibility by enrolling top students from every country. They are trying to “break into the market.” I can not fault them for that - it is a business after all, as is Harvard, Yale, Princeton and all the other schools.
I think most high school students looking in to possible schools are actually not stumbling, young, easy manipulated or innocent. If they are, they certainly will not be a good match there or anywhere. Out of all the applications NYUAD chooses those who they think have the independent minds and scholarship to be able to finish as outstanding individuals. Those get invited to the Candidate Weekend and from all those candidates 150 or so get chosen. The fact that you do not get invited or chosen after a weekend does not reflect on your excellence as a student. There are many more applicants than available places. In some ways it is the roll of the dice.
My son was lucky enough to be part of the first year. He majors in Theatre (2260 SAT/36 ACT) and was accepted to the Tisch School at NYU before he got his invitation to go to Abu Dhabi. As an actor (really a want-to-be-an-actor-or-die) he doubted that going anywhere except close to Broadway was an option. And guess what? He loved it. He loved the adventure and being exposed to international forms of theatre, he loved the small classes, he loved the travel opportunities and the chance to have two semesters abroad (he will do one at NYU this fall and one in London next spring.) He loved the feel of students from all over the world and being in a small enough school that the liberal arts and science students mix and talk and order late night food from the Lebanese restaurant -open until 1 am. He has so far been twice to India, then to Katmandu, Istanbul, Shanghai (and Beijing), Jordan and Dubai. He has travelled by himself to Oman and took extra days in Jordan with another student. And all that is just in the first two years.
The school is absolutely not for everyone. As lovely as the small classes are, there is no way to dream off or be late in classes with less that 15 students. Life in the dorms is just life in dorms as far as I could see (we were there for a visit last December) - messy rooms, lots of posters in the hallways, students with blank looks or their faces going off to finals, take-out menu’s everywhere, even though they are on full meal plans and have their own kitchens. Someone earlier mentioned " NYUAD is basically a small college with an eclectic mix of students." - That’s actually really what it feels like and it felt good to me.
I can totally understand residents from the UE being upset that their tax dollars are being spend on a NYU extension. And I can even better understand why as a resident you do not want to go there. Why stay when other great opportunities await you? And that’s exactly how all those other students ended up there. They are out for a great adventure as well - one that will make the Middle East a permanent presence in their life from now on. And that is a very good thing.
I can not deny that as parents we were besides ourselves for the “full ride” he received. Even with merit aid and grants, Tisch would have him graduate with about $ 80K in debt. Now he will be an out of work actor without a college debt - another good thing.
For people like Plontinus, who is a parent trying to find possible schools for his kid other that the Ivies, I say - let the kid apply where he wants, let the kid decide where to go - and then see if you have the money to pay for it. There are plenty of great professors with great credentials at the Ivies - but are they the one who teach the undergrads, or is it their TA? Are they tenured and have taught the same class for years on end and have now written the very expensive, mandatory, textbook? Check out Salaam Blog and see some of the talent NYUD attracts. Look at the science classes, the incredible venues to learn about Philosophy and really Plontinus, I think whatever the disgraced members of the Greece government have to say is of great importance. These students are not stupid, they have access to all the great newspapers, radio, tv and the input of friends and families. I’m sure the poor Greek official did not get an easy ride. What would your kid have asked when given that opportunity?
I would have liked both my kids to have taken a year off between high school and college. Neither one wanted to do so. I think traveling, volunteering and working for a living are great educational opportunities before you commit to a study goal. For those of you who really, really want to go to NYUAD and did not get in? Consider taking a year off and then try again. You are young and have plenty of time - I keep my fingers crossed for all of you.</p>
<p>I’ve been skimming this thread and just returned from a Candidate Weekend. I currently attend a top international school in the US where abut 25% of the graduating class attends Ivies.</p>
<p>Certainly, I share skepticism about NYU-Abu Dhabi (my parents even moreso). But, quite honestly, it’s likely my first choice. I was completely blown away about the candidate weekend.</p>
<p>The first thing to realize is that NYU-Abu Dhabi is a liberal arts college. As such, it should be compared to schools like Williams. Yes, it will likely never have the same level of research as the Ivies since professors interested primarily in research will always gravitate toward graduate schools. And it will also never have the same prestige, if only by virtue of its small size. (Average Americans don’t generally know about the top LACs).</p>
<p>The faculty, while possibly lacking extensive experience, are uniformly excellent. My sample class wasn’t even a subject I’m terribly interested in (Computer Engineering) but the professor was quite engaging and definitely made the subject matter accessible while </p>
<p>The students I met at the Candidate Weekend were generally very interesting, engaged, and intelligent. Honestly, I made a couple friendships which will last even if we’re rejected. Yes, the emirati students were below the regular standard, but they were still intelligent and constitute a small minority of the student body.</p>
<p>Many, many current students were anxious to volunteer and meet prospective students. Indeed, they sacrificed their weekend to do so, with many students staying up all night talking with us. I asked all the students there two questions: why I shouldn’t go to NYU-AD and where else they were accepted? To the former, most pointed out the fact that it <em>is</em> a small school and can be a bit of a bubble. To the latter, most were accepted to top Ivies (HYPS).</p>
<p>Regarding the SAT scores, I absolutely understand their reluctance to insist on or report scores. While I attend school with highly intelligent students who can certainly succeed in college, they generally have quite low SAT scores due to their educational backgrounds. Of the American-educated students I met at the Candidate Weekend, they all have SAT scores over 2100.</p>
<p>Feel free to ask me any questions you want about NYU-AD and I’ll do my best to answer from my experience there. Honestly, I have a likely letter from Dartmouth and applied to many top universities (including Brown and Princeton) but would probably attend NYUAD over them.</p>
<p>Thanks again to all who have replied with very informative and thoughtful answers.</p>
<p>To abudhabimama: I can certainly understand the preference of an aspiring actor not to load himself down with $80,000 in debt!! Is your son the person making Youtube Adventure Report?</p>
<p>About Lambrinidis: I am sorry, I cannot agree with calling him “the poor man”. In 2001, the PASOK government of Simitis colluded with Goldman Sachs to falsify Greek national debt data and so enter into the Euro zone. That government and all the subsequent Greek governments have been shown to be rife with corruption, fraud, cronyism, and data falsification. Lambrinidis is a prominent member of the PASOK party and started working as an advisor to Papandreou in 1996, so he is no innocent bystander to all this. He is one of the people responsible for the Greek debt crisis scandal. Ordinary citizens of the EU are now paying straight from their own pockets for the misdeeds of the Greek government (not that the other European governments are innocent, but the Greek one is in a class by itself). </p>
<p>I have no idea what question my son would have asked him, but I would ask him this:</p>
<p>(1) What did you know about the falsification of Greek national debt data and when did you know it?
(2) Why did you remain in a party that was engaged in massive fraud and collusion with Goldman Sachs?
(3) What would you respond to an EU citizen who is outraged that the PASOK party lied about the ever-increading Greek debt for at least 10 years, and then unloaded it onto the citizens of the other countries of Europe?
(4) Do you have any connections to Goldman Sachs? Did you do any consulting work for Goldman Sachs while you were a professor at Yale Business School?</p>
<p>I can tell you that when members of the PASOK party, like Simitis or Papandreou, try to give public lectures in Europe, crowds of people shout at them “You have stolen the people’s money!”</p>
<p>What was the title of his lecture at Abu Dhabi?</p>
<p>By the way, regarding Lambrinidis he only “interviewed” about 4 students and these weren’t even interviews. They’re “conversations” and play a very small role in the admissions process. I would have loved to have the opportunity to interview him, though I spoke with Bob Shrum instead.</p>
<p>To kameronsmith:</p>
<p>Thank you for the clarification, because I was not even sure whether Lambrinidis had interviewed students or not. The blog I read reported this as an interview. </p>
<p>Most college interviews (alumni interviews, for example) have the form of a conversation. Do you know why he was asked to speak individually to high school applicants and why he agreed? </p>
<p>Why do you say this conversation/interview plays a very small role? It might not play much of a role from the point of view of the university, but I think it would play a gigantic role from the point of view of the applicant, who is a high school student who has probably never even seen, much less been individually interviewed by, a world leader. Don’t you think this might give the candidate the impression that students at NYUAD will have regular personal contact with people in high governmental positions, and so will be fast-tracked to global leadership?</p>
<p>You say, “Of the American-educated students I met at Candidates Weekend, they all have SAT scores over 2100.”</p>
<p>Are you saying that you actually asked every student at Candidates Weekend for his or her SAT scores, and they all gave you this information? I think that is really admirable fact-finding. How many American-educated students did you meet at Candidates Weekend? By “American-educated”, do you mean students who attend school in the US? Did you ask any other students for SAT scores, or just the American-educated ones? </p>
<p>I would be really interested to know this information. Of course, this data would apply only to the applicants, not to the attending students, so would still not be the kind of data published in USNWR. And only 19% of the class of 2015 are from the US, so we are talking about a pretty small percentage.</p>
<p>
From the point of view of the university, it was quite clear that the conversation (which was definitely very different from any other “interview” I’ve had—they didn’t ask about my ECs at all, for example) didn’t play a huge role. The whole weekend was evaluative and the individual conversation was only a small part of that (my interviewer said as much). And they were clear that he was only a visitor, but honestly my impression is that students do have fairly regular access to some world leaders. It’s a very new institution and a lot of people are interested in learning more about it; John Sexton, in particular, has access to an excellent network of leaders and invites many of them to visit NYUAD.</p>
<p>
By American-educated I mean students who attended school in the US or an American school abroad. (This is important, because in my experience British schools tend to produce significantly lower SAT scores.) I didn’t ask everyone, but I made it a point to ask many (at least 30) of the candidates. All were over 2100 and there were quite a few 2350+.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the difficulty when it comes to this data is that the school is treated as a component of NYU itself. Hence, we don’t have access to the individual SAT score data. But honestly, I don’t see this as an act of malicious intent but a side effect of the school’s infancy (after all, we only have 2 classes to even <em>look</em> at data for).</p>
<p>@abudhabi-mama
The problem isn’t about spending money on an NYU extension. It’s about not supporting our local brands, the essence of our educational system. I’m totally fine with bringing foreign expertise and whatnot, but it shouldn’t be at the cost of our local universities. I do like that NYUAD brings a liberal arts education that’s often taken for granted over here. Moreover, NYUAD is a good attempt at diversifying majors and degrees in a market that is completely saturated by business majors, educators, architects and engineers (they total to 90% of our workforce). However, one should start from the inside (local universities), and work outwards. By the way, the UAE doesn’t tax anybody (I would argue that we have indirect taxes, however), but I understand what you’re trying to say.</p>
<p>I do agree that other tests and evaluations are not inferior to the SAT in knowledge assessment. However, the SAT predicts success in the American system well, while other tests might not work. From my experience, the evaluation used in local schools here often fails to capture how well one will perform in an American college. I’m not saying the SAT is flawless, but it does what it’s supposed to do: predict success at American colleges. The TOEFL/IELTS is a language test, not an academic achievement predictor. It isn’t enough as an assessment. </p>
<p>@ kameronsmith</p>
<p>“Yes, the Emirati students were below the regular standard, but they were still intelligent and constitute a small minority of the student body.”</p>
<p>I’ve been wondering about that^. I was quite sure that much leniency was granted to those students already, but having confirmation is always good. I would like to know what those students major in, if you have any idea. Also, while you didn’t say anything wrong, I recommend being a little more indirect with what you say, if you do attend NYUAD. People here are sensitive, and you can rub them in the wrong way quite easily.</p>
<p>I believe that NYUAD is dishonest about its data. I highly doubt it would have any difficulty with displaying its numbers in more detail. All the data-ranging from campus to major to whatever- are registered in databases, so why would sorting anything be difficult? Do you actually believe that being part of NYU makes getting the data difficult? All it takes is 10 minutes is to sort the database into whatever you want to display. You could teach a middle school student how to do it, so why would experts have any difficulty with extracting the required numbers? Moreover, NYUAD isn’t honest with local government offices, so why would it be with anybody else?</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about the NYUAD administration and I am not accusing NYUAD of falsifying its SAT data, as is Cardgames, who has direct experience with the institution, whereas I have none.</p>
<p>However, I agree with Cardgames that there is no reason for NYUAD not to publish its SAT data in the same format as do all universities listed in USNWR, and that the way it chooses to publish its data invites the suspicion that the university is hiding something.</p>
<p>We know that Delusion2016 reported SAT scores of 2050, so at least one person invited to Candidates Weekend submitted scores under 2100. Was he or she at this Weekend?</p>
<p>We also know that one person on CC wrote:</p>
<p>“Don’t send [your SAT scores] if they aren’t high. Their average is 710-730 for each section on the reasoning test. Most of the EDers who got in did not send.
They’re really not a requirement.”</p>
<p>I don’t know whether the claim is true that most EDers who got in did not submit SAT scores. However, I do know that it is said in academic circles that universities make the SAT optional to inflate their SAT percentiles, because when SAT’s are optional, only students with high scores submit them.</p>
<p>Many, many thousands of non-US students take the SAT and do extremely well on it. Admissions officers expect international student SAT scores to be slightly lower. All the international students studying at universities in the US (except those few that are SAT-optional, like NYU in New York), have submitted SAT or ACT scores. Georgetown University in Qatar requires all applicants to submit SAT or ACT scores. The SAT is not the whole story about a student, but it is a part of the story. When that part is missing, part of the story is missing. That part cannot be told on the basis of something else.</p>
<p>So I personally would like to see NYUAD make the SAT or ACT a requirement, and do not see any good reason for it to be optional.</p>
<p>But even if NYUAD chooses not to do that, it should tell us the percentage of admitted students who have submitted SAT scores. Is it 90%? 80%?50%? 20%? 10%? Why does NYUAD not publish this number? Its published SAT data are virtually useless without this number. It is also impossible to compare the academic credentials of students at NYUAD to the academic credentials of students at other universities. To put universities on the same footing, the data has to be presented in the same way. If the academic credentials of its students are so stellar, NYUAD should be proud of them and proudly publish their data.</p>
<p>To kameronsmith: There were 30 students from the US at the recent Candidates Weekend? That seems to me a very high number of US students, considering that there are only about 30 US students in the class of 2015, and NYUAD holds 4 Candidates Weekends. Do you think NYUAD is trying to increase the number of US students for the class of 2016? Or do you think this number was so high just for this particular Candidates Weekend?</p>
<p>To kameronsmtih:</p>
<p>I see that you have been on CC for quite a long time, since December 2008. Why did you join CC when you were only a freshman in high school? You really ARE a thorough fact-finder!</p>
<p>Its not that No SAT scores were sought for NYUAD . There were 3 options - either 2 SAT subject test scores, or SAT I scores Or some other SAT /ACT combo ( i forget - pls check at the NYU site) . </p>
<p>Look, the SAT is no big deal really - just another pattern recognition exam and most Indian kids passing out from most city schools will max the math without even one day of practice. I know of several kids of my friends who get 800 in all SAT subject tests . It really is a cake walk to them compared to the IIT entrance exams or even the Engineering entrance exams where the selectivity is just 3 or 2%. Dont take my word for it - check this out : [Documentray</a> on IIT on an American TV Channel. MUST SEE FOR ALL IITIANS.avi - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>And research offered at UG level - seriously - they just become cheap clerical & lab assistants to MS / PhD students & Profs who are conducting the real research. There is a whole lot of theory to learn and ponder / contemplate & a lot of lab work by way of practicals to catch up to become a good researcher before anyone can do ‘research’. i hear of kids doing research after 2nd year & publishing papers !! That is a joke !! Its just taking this thing too far !</p>
<p>college is essentially a place to learn from people who are good at the subject & good at teaching. I have read serious criticism of attending UG even at large Ivy schools where they are mostly taught by MS kids from India, China & Russia. Star Profs never take classes for UG kids ( they have million $ research projects to attend to !) . The ones who do take classes, do so once a week or so, in halls that pack 300 to 600 kids. Again - don’t take my word for it : Thomas R. Cech ( a Nobel Laureate in Medicine) writes this: <a href=“http://northcentralcollege.edu/Documents/development/cech_article.pdf[/url]”>http://northcentralcollege.edu/Documents/development/cech_article.pdf</a> . There are other problems: Even with just 140 kids in a year my son sometimes cannot get classes he seeks - what to speak of say - PENN that has 3000+ UG kids a year ?</p>
<p>Every college began playing with stats from the day USNEWS started ranking colleges. It is a rat race & it is foolish to get carried off with it all. Besides, there is a life after these 4 years & its just 4 years ! We are playing into the hands of a magazine & statistics with it all. Just go out there and get into any of the decent schools . Some colleges that dont play ball with USnews fall down drastically in rankings the very next year as if they were fruits rotting overnight. But then again USNEWs have done a good thing with its ranking & score reporting . its only when we are over dependent on that & start split hairs that we are taking it too far. </p>
<p>I passed out with an engineering master’s from an IIT in India & was on top of the heap . But i just dumped it all to pursue philosophy for 8 years. I know of several of my friends who ‘made’ it & several who didn’t give a damn ! because, like i said - there is a life after this OUT SIDE these campuses & its a BIG world out there !! There these obsessions on what college you attended play no role or at best a small role. No one cares where you went really for your UG or MS- If you can deliver, u take off. This whole nitpicking is only for these in final years in school and those who remain on campuses to teach or work as counselors. In the end its branding - Its just as silly as insisting on a particular brand - who cares if u wore nike or adidas shoes? they are both made in China & probably by the same company ! Only a fool will take the slogans & catch phrases of these brands as the absolute truth.</p>
<p>There is inherently a flaw in college education, especially in science . As concepts are doled out & packed into you, you are missing out the very process of having arrived at it. The route the scientists took to arrive at it is completely lost ! And one soon becomes a walking Hard disk & less of a creative problem solver. Following a cut & dried curriculum is probably the best way to nip creativity & curiosity in the bud ! </p>
<p>So to all who are applying here - dont worry if you did not get into some college u are obsessed with ! Its not the end of the world ! Your obsessions with some XYZ college is just a result of slick PR & hype. And i am sure every college / univ does its share of hyping & juggling of stats. And when you are done with college, you will look back & laugh it all !!</p>
<p>But do get in somewhere and when u sit with your text books, submit assignments, attend lectures, etc. just remember that kids everywhere refer to the same texts, same sources , same online videos on practically every subject today, irrespective of the college one attends or its ranking. In the end, its about how much u have really learned, comprehended & assimilated. And after that , its about how u translate that into real world contributions. Needless to add here, you all know that some of the top people in science & technology are college drop outs!</p>
<p>First of all, remember that NYUAD is not test-optional in the way that most American colleges are. You can’t elect to just not submit SAT scores, you simply can elect to use alternate tests as a measure of success. Hence, I don’t really think it’s a case of rampart abuse where students choose not to submit any tests. Likely, for most American students it is their only option.</p>
<p>But, if I’m accepted, I’ll certainly push them to release more data on this. I do know some of the admissions officers fairly well (we’ve had multiple personal conversations, both at my school and at CW) and doubt they have an intent of deception. If they still refuse to release data, then I’ll actually start to believe your suspicions of malign intent.</p>
<p>
As I said earlier, I meant American-educated (participatory in American-style education). Hence, this included quite a few of the international students as well.
I’m really not sure why this is relevant and why you’re taking an ad hominem approach. For your reference, I was actually a sophomore (I’ve been in high school for 5 years, since I transferred schools) and joined to use free SAT resources.</p>
<p>Plotinus" – if you desire the correct information as a parent, please contact the NYUAD administration. You, however, do not fool me with your rhetorical questions, as no parent in their right mind would be acting the way you are; quite frankly, your behavior isn’t normal. I see that you have been posting on other threads in your attempt to seek negative feedback … or whatever else it is you wish to bash.<br>
abudhabi-mama - my son is a friend of your son ;)</p>
<p>With all due respect, nousrep, I think you are COMPLETELY mistaken about undergraduate research when you say</p>
<p>“And research offered at UG level - seriously - they just become cheap clerical & lab assistants to MS / PhD students & Profs who are conducting the real research. There is a whole lot of theory to learn and ponder / contemplate & a lot of lab work by way of practicals to catch up to become a good researcher before anyone can do ‘research’. i hear of kids doing research after 2nd year & publishing papers !! That is a joke !! Its just taking this thing too far !”</p>
<p>In your comments, you have confused being a research assistant, a work-study job, and doing research. At Princeton, for example, all undergraduate students are required to write two major original research projects: a junior paper, and a senior thesis. The student has one faculty advisor for the junior paper, and two (a first and second reader) for the senior thesis. The senior thesis, a work of 50-100 pages, is followed by an oral defense, during which the student must demonstrate a broad knowledge of the area of the thesis. Thus the senior thesis has a form similar to a doctoral dissertation, although obviously on a much simpler and smaller scale. This is REAL undergraduate research, and it is the way we learn to do real graduate research, and real scientific research.</p>
<p>You also say:
“Its not that No SAT scores were sought for NYUAD . There were 3 options - either 2 SAT subject test scores, or SAT I scores Or some other SAT /ACT combo ( i forget - pls check at the NYU site).”</p>
<p>As I have already said, the SAT Reasoning Test does not measure the same abilities as, and cannot be replaced by, SAT Subject Tests. Everyone knows this. This is why all high-caliber universities require both. I think NYU New York has lowered its standards by making the SAT Reasoning Test/ACT optional (meaning: you can substitute 3 Subject Tests) in what looks to me like an attempt to inflate its SAT percentiles and compete more effectively with Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>I think you are quite right that the SAT Subject Tests in math and science are ridiculously easy for a student with excellent school preparation in math and science, the kind of preparation most Indian students receive. I also know quite a few students who can get 800 in SAT Reasoning Test Math (while yawning), but could not even get close to 650 in Critical Reading. This is why Subject Tests are not equivalent to the Reasoning Test and cannot substitute for it.</p>
<p>I would go even farther and say that you can get a reasonable first approximation of the caliber of the student body of a school just by looking at the percentage of admitted students who have submitted SAT Reasoning Test scores. From what I have seen, there is a not so bad correlation between a school’s percentage of admitted students who submit SAT Reasoning Test scores, and the school’s ranking in USNWR. For example, at Harvard, 96% submitted SAT Reasoning Test scores; Columbia: 96%, Princeton: 96%; University of Chicago: 85%. (The remaining students submitted ACT scores, and some submitted both.) I would like to see NUYAD’s numbers on this. The other universities have all published theirs.</p>
<p>@kameronsmith </p>
<p>I don’t really think the words “malicious” and “malignant” fit what Plotinus and I suspect. I just think that NYUAD is trying to make itself seem more prestigious/selective than it actually is. There’s nothing wrong or evil about that; it’s just PR. I don’t’ think NYUAD is falsifying numbers; I think it’s presenting them in an awkward manner. To be honest, I think it’s SAT percentiles are pretty similar to those of the Ivy League schools. However, I just can’t believe NYUAD’s scores are higher than Harvard’s.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’m bailing out on this thread. I wish you luck on your “quest for truth”, Plotinus. You shouldn’t overanalyze the SAT scores. Just focus on what matters in a college: quality of teaching, opportunities for internships and research, social life, quality of the student body, and so on. After going through this thread, I don’t think NYUAD is that bad anymore. While I might hate it from a number of perspectives, it IS a quality school that has unique offerings. If an applicant likes what NYUAD offers (free education, exotic location, small size, etc.), he/she should definitely should definitely apply/attend the school.</p>
<p>SAT Reasoning test scores are a major tool that NYUAD is using in its marketing strategy. Students are told by NYUAD reps that NYUAD has higher average SAT scores than does Harvard, but they are not told how many of their students submit SAT scores.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is malignant, but it is very hard-sell and hype directed at young people and their parents. I also think it is very hard-sell and hype to solicit “honors” nominations from guidance counselors, put high students in a luxury beachfront
hotel, give them camel rides in the desert, a dinner party in a seven-star hotel, a private interview with a (disgraced) foreign minister, etc. None of this is normal, and it is damaging if it successfully convinces someone to attend NYUAD who would be better off elsewhere. No normal academic could dream up and put into effect this kind of recruitment strategy. There also are many more important and worthwhile ways to spend the money to make the world a better place. So maybe next time the candidates could propose donating the cost of the dinner to a deserving charity.</p>