Obama as president will be the hope to make changes in the educational system

Parent Cafe
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<p>tega: I largely agree, but I think it’s a bit simplistic to base AA solely on socioeconomic status. For example, a poor Asian child in an Asian community benefits from the values of work ethic and industriousness instilled by the community, whereas a poor black child in a predominantly black community may have to overcome additional barriers in the form of aversion to academic success that are often prevalent in black communities of low socioeconomic status.</p>

<p>I think the current system is wildly simplistic, but while simply basing affirmative action on socioeconomic status is better, it is also by no means ideal.</p>

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<p>1of42, I understand the potential problems that can arise from AA based solely on socio-economic status, nevertheless, I think it is a better system than race based AA. </p>

<p>I wish Al Sharpton and the rest of the self appointed leadership (these people represent themselves more than the black community) of the Black community would spend more time encouraging young black kids to make education a priority. These civil rights leaders (I admire all the work they have done in the past to free blacks from institutionalized racism) have really failed IMHO to plan for the next phase of the civil rights movement. There is some racism still in the system, but it is not the number issue faced by the black community. </p>

<p>There are very few black men in college (men in general would soon have to be put on the endangered students list for college), and the numbers are dwindling yearly. This I think should be the focus of the Black community.</p>

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<p>Not true. For example, Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr received a threat of legal action concerning their summer enrichment program for accepted URM students. Their lawyers, as part of a top to bottom review of Grutter compliance, determined they didn’t have a legal leg to stand on because acceptance into the program was race-based. They changed the criteria to include white students, immediately.</p>

<p>You couldn’t be more wrong about colleges not responding. They have been furiously re-writing race-based scholarship language.</p>

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<p>Well, maybe AA woman and men can practice wiser sexual habits. That would be a start.</p>

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<p>“summer enrichment program for accepted URM students”</p>

<p>I thought we were talking about affirmative action in admissions.</p>

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<p>It’s all part of the same package, isn’t it? That’s why Grutter was such a sneaky decision. It OK’s considering race as a limited part in a holistic process, but provided a legal roadmap to go after de facto rased-based decision-making, such as summer program or a scholarship package open only to members of a particular race. </p>

<p>I know that Swarthmore’s legal team conducting their post-Grutter review had to consider whether the College could even continue funding the African Americans Students association.</p>

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<p>“It’s all part of the same package, isn’t it?”</p>

<p>Well, no, I don’t think it is. A summer program that whites are ineligible for isn’t holistic – it’s bright-line. It also doesn’t really serve the diversity-in-the-classroom justification O’Connor hung her hat on; it’s pretty clearly designed to help those individual students as opposed to the community at large. But the case-by-case reading of freshman apps with race awareness isn’t hanging by a thread in my view. It’s always possible that changes to SCOTUS could shake things up, but I don’t see this clear path to a blanket ban (“one more justice”) that you seem to.</p>

<p>“Swarthmore’s legal team conducting their post-Grutter review had to consider…”</p>

<p>Well, smart legal teams consider every possibility, even worst-case long shots. It doesn’t mean that the scenarios are going to happen or even likely to happen.</p>

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<p>I couldn’t believe the OP in this forum. Seems incredibly out of place for the intelligence level of adults here. So yes, maybe it is a ■■■■■.</p>

<p>I have an apartment in a city where the median household income is $38,000. Major races are white, asian (Cambodian, Vietnamese, Laotion) and hispanic. There are gangs in the schools, violence in the schools, weapons in the schools and disrespect for authority by teenagers (not all of course). The city voted for Clinton in the primary. It is about socioeconomic class. It’s just that vocal minorities can make a lot of noise.</p>

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<p>Regardless of who is the president AA will stand.</p>

<p>The supreme court has no grounds by which to abolish Affirmative Action in private institutions. They could abolish “discrimination” against Asian students, if it exists, but one new judge or not they are not supported by the law. </p>

<p>They would have to be able to prove that AA is having a negative effect or malicious intent towards a group, which would mean that Affirmative Action would have to reduce the number of students from other groups going to college, which it does not. </p>

<p>It doesn’t matter whether or not they think AA is wrong, Privately it cannot be abolished because diversity is a “trait” just like the strength of athletic department or legacy, which the courts cannot restrict. And publicly it will be left to the states, which they still can’t enforce in any university that switches to holistic admissions (ex, University of Michigan).</p>

<p>For people who are attempting to act so condescending towards the OP, you sure have a limited understanding about how the supreme court makes rulings.</p>

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<p>“Privately it cannot be abolished”</p>

<p>Sure it can. Virtually all private institutions accept federal funding, and the government can choose to attach anti-discrimination strings to that funding if it chooses to. Title IX (mandating gender equality in sports programs) applies to private schools as well as public. That’s also true of civil rights laws.</p>

<p>I don’t think that AA at private schools is in danger, because there’s no political will in Congress to end it. But if the federal government wanted to wipe-out race-aware admissions at private schools, I think that law would stand up under scrutiny. (Maybe HYP could get along without federal money, but not many schools could.)</p>

<p>“They would have to be able to prove that AA is having a negative effect or malicious intent towards a group”</p>

<p>What? I think you’re confusing the Supreme Court with Congress. It’s Congress that has the (financial) power to control what private schools do. If there were no purse strings involved, the First Amendment right of free association would control. You could start up Nazi University of Illinois tomorrow, and ban nonwhite students altogether, and you’d probably be within your rights as long as your school didn’t accept any government assistance.</p>

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<p>Since when did I say it was? My OP said socialism, sounds great. The original OP suggested more wealth distribution (a socialist principle). Then you flipped out because god forbid somebady bash socialism! I then explained that socialism helps out the lower class, not everybody else. You then put words in my mouth and said it was the primary test of a political system. I plan on making more then 30k/yr so I’d appreciate it if we kept the wealth redistribution to a minimum in this country.</p>

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<p>You’re also going to have problems in Asian communities you won’t have in black communities. The fact of the matter is in the “real world” you’re never going to have a perfect system. Socioeconomic AA is better then race AA.</p>

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<p>LaxAttack09: I definitely explicitly said that socioeconomic-based is better than race-based. But a system which takes into account both the huge socioeconomic challenges and the smaller, but still significant racial challenges many applicants face, is superior.</p>

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<p>Regarding Asians:</p>

<p>There are asian subgroups that do not do well in education.</p>

<p>And there are subgroups that do very well. If you change the formula to exclude them from schools based on metrics, I’d expect to see the asian kids jumping even higher to compensate and then you’d get this huge mismatch in kids’ abilities in college that’s pretty glaring.</p>

<p>Economic class is not ideal. Neither is the current approach for financial aid just looking at the last income statement and balance sheet. But detailed analysis and policy costs time and money.</p>

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<p>The problem with something like this is it is open to subjectivity, at least much more then socioeconomics. How many “points” do you give a black kid who grew up in South Central and had to stay away from gangs? Do you give “points” to an asian kid who had to grow up under intense pressure to perform well? Do you give “points” to children who grew up in larger families?</p>

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<p>I don’t think the day will come - that I am agreeing with 1of42 on most points he made here. Taxing the rich can’t be the solution of all of society’s ills. </p>

<p>According to OP, just being poor is reason enough to have things handed to you.</p>

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<p>those who says I am ■■■■■, here is something for you</p>

<p>Prep for Prep: Measures of Success
[Prep</a> for Prep Web Site:](<a href=“http://www.prepforprep.org/prepforprep/successful.asp]Prep”>http://www.prepforprep.org/prepforprep/successful.asp)</p>

<p>"This year, 4,066 students competed for 222 spots in the program, an acceptance rate of 6%.
At least 75% of a contingent (annually admitted cohort of students) typically completes the 14-month Preparatory Component.
Overall, 40% of Prep for Prep college graduates have earned their degrees from Ivy League universities, while 84% have graduated from colleges characterized as “most selective” by US News & World Report.
This year, 852 Prep students are enrolled in over 50 independent day and boarding schools in New York City and the northeast, such as Andover (21), Brearley (37), Collegiate (38), Dalton (34), Exeter (25), Horace Mann (54), and Nightingale-Bamford (29).
628 Prep alumni/ae currently attend such leading colleges and universities as Brown (27), Columbia (30), Dartmouth (18), Harvard (32), Penn (36), Princeton (22), Wesleyan (58), and Yale (23).
This summer, a total of 212 job/internship opportunities were made available to Prep students through our Summer Jobs Bank and Career Paths Plus! Industries represented include finance, law, communications, entertainment & media, healthcare, education, arts & culture, sports, fashion, and architecture. The collaborations were clearly successful—evaluations revealed that 62% of our high school interns’ employers felt them to be among the best summer interns with whom they had ever worked, and another 29% felt that our students were better than average.<br>
Beyond college, Prep alumni/ae continue to achieve at the highest levels. As of April 2003, 69% of Prep’s college graduates out of school ten years or more had earned or were pursuing advanced degrees. Among those students who had been out of school five years or more, the percentage was 50%.<br>
Among the 951 college graduates as of April 2003, Prep counted over 750 employed alumni/ae and 115 more full-time graduate students. Education was the leading industry in which Prep alumni/ae were employed (20%), followed by finance (16%), business (13%), law (9%), and health care (7%). Our graduate student population was comprised largely of law students (about 40); PhD and EdD candidates (25); medical students (20); and MBA candidates (15). Columbia, Harvard, and Penn were the most frequently attended graduate schools.<br>
Over the last five years, Prep’s college graduates have contributed at an average rate of 62% toward our Annual Alumni/ae Giving Campaign. By comparison, the National Association of Independent Schools cited the national average of independent school alumni/ae giving in 2002-03 at just 19%. "</p>

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<p>^^So what? Doesn’t take away from the fact that you can’t tax the rich to solve all your problems…</p>

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<p>It is not cheaper to build a jail and put people in it for petty crimes. </p>

<p>It will be be far beneficial to educate the poor AFro Americans, poor whites and poor lations. If you tecah them, they will provide social secuirty, taxes in coffer and will take less money - thus way to capitalism.</p>

<p>If you hand over money without tecahing than it is socalism and it is bad. But tecahing a kid to have dreams - what is wrong with it.</p>

<p>Imagine if all the poor muslims who have access to poor education, would they be willing to be the sucide bombers, I do not think so. World will be a safer place where people are made aware that their own action can hurt them. Thus they need self awarenewss which comes from education. If we can tecah our kids education and provide them thinking and tools for their development - I call it a capiatalism - not a socialism.</p>

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<p>Why Warren Buffet and Bill gates are keeping only $100 milllion and giving rest of $$$$$$$ Billions to world education and other programs - are they stupid?</p>

<p>I do not think so.</p>

<p>Laxattack - you probably are born in a family where parents gave you shelter and food. You are lucky that parents hold your hands to teach you that you are responsible for your action. I did not say taxing alone will solve problems. I said giving a good education will help the future gnerations. One day when you need this young brains will invoate and bring new technology, they will be the user of services.</p>

<p>Look this way china is getting ahead by doing better education system - why we can not focus on our kids education. AT least try and see if it fails but give them a chnace to succeed by providing toools of education.</p>