<p>But you seemed to indicate that there was something wrong with Obama being at Trinity for social benefits.</p>
<p>The UCC church allows each congregation a decent amount of autonomy, so it is much more likely for people to have differing views of theology, yet co-exist side by side in the church at Trinity in harmony. They are open to dialogue and enlightened interpretations of scripture (Wright is a respected biblical scholar), so the contraints of theology aren’t what pushed Obama away; it was the dynamics of circumstances beyond his control.</p>
<p>The fact that Obama quit the church still will leave him open for attacks. Now people will say he was so naive that it took the media and public outcry for him to realize that many people did not accept his reason for belonging in the 1st place. Either way he will have to answer questions.</p>
<p>People that want to attack will attack, no matter what. If he had stayed, the congregation would have been endlessly scrutinized, “reporters” would have continued to call anyone on the membership list (including shut-ins and the desperately ill) for comments, and 527s would be buying the church sermons every week, looking for further ammunition to arm their guilty-by-association weapon.</p>
<p>By leaving, at least one can hope that the new pastor and the congregation won’t be subjected to the above. If folks want to continue their attacks, at least they can direct their attacks on Senator Obama, rather than on people who didn’t ask to be caught up in a firefight.</p>
<p>Obama was not noble in leaving the church for the sake of the security and well-being of the church and its members. I don’t buy that for a second. He’s just vote pandering as he always does.</p>
<p>"“Who defines what’s right and what’s wrong on doctrinal matters?”</p>
<p>That goes back to the core of a religion. If you don’t know that, then anyone can make up anything for doctrine."</p>
<p>I belong to a non-creedal denomination. One of our core principles is that it is the province of every person to engage in a responsible search for truth and meaning.</p>
<p>It’s hard to imagine Michelle Obama being happy at a mainline Episcopal church. The worship style of black churches is vastly different. Probably they will join no church for the time being.</p>
<p>It was smart for Obama to leave that wack-job church. It was stupid for him to wait this long. The real question is whether Rev. Wright will have a role in Obama’s administration swearing in people, etc. (or maybe I should say swearing at people)?</p>
<p>“But you seemed to indicate that there was something wrong with Obama being at Trinity for social benefits.”</p>
<p>Perhaps I was unclear. My problem is if one attends a church with major doctrinal problems first and foremost. The social benefits are a secondary factor. Yes, they can keep a person in despite serious disagreements in doctrine. But they shouldn’t. And it’s pretty clear that Obama agrees with this according to his actions.</p>
<p>He would have been damned if he continued to worship there, and damned if he left. Rock meets hard spot. But, it was still best for him to leave for all concerned.</p>
<p>Jeremiah Wright won’t be seen holding any bibles for Obama, neither now nor in the future. Any future clergy Obama associates with from now on is likely going to be very carefully vetted.</p>
<p>A minister’s social or political commentary is not the same as church doctrine. In fact, I haven’t heard anything about the actual doctrine or theology of Obama’s former church that supports the idea of it being unfit as a place of worship. I understand some people don’t like the politics of the clergy, but that’s not the same as church doctrine or theology. By virtually all accounts, the clergy’s political opinions have never been what the church or its services have been about – not until the media blitz and all the political spin that is.</p>
<p>I am sure it pained him --and all political considerations aside, there is still a very human story here. A tragedy. I do not envy him what he must have gone through to get to this point.</p>
<p>"The social benefits are a secondary factor. Yes, they can keep a person in despite serious disagreements in doctrine. But they shouldn’t. "</p>
<p>Wha – ? Who are you to say what’s primary or secondary in someone else’s church? If the community of faith is the number one thing that I treasure in my church, I SHOULD follow that belief, regardless of your unsolicited opinion.</p>
<p>I think it was a smart move. Now he won’t have to disavow any questionable statement that is made from the pulpit there. He probably won’t join any new church until after the election, because that church would be subject to the same treatment. Great work, conservatives! You forced an actual Christian to stop going to church!</p>
<p>“Wha – ? Who are you to say what’s primary or secondary in someone else’s church? If the community of faith is the number one thing that I treasure in my church, I SHOULD follow that belief, regardless of your unsolicited opinion.”</p>
<p>Then you follow a doctrine with a foundation of sand.</p>
<p>Note that Rev. Wright’s comments were a social element of the church, not a doctrine. Thus, by BCEagle91’s reasoning, Obama should have disregarded them and focused on the doctrines of the church, which I think are fairly mainline Christian.</p>
<p>“Then you follow a doctrine with a foundation of sand.”</p>
<p>Maybe I don’t follow a doctrine at all, but a different type of spiritual idea.</p>
<p>If it makes you feel good to boast that other people’s modes of worship are iherently inferior to yours, then maybe I’m not the one standing on a foundation of sand.</p>
<p>While that would make sense for convenience purposes, since most of the churches in Hyde Park have strong liberal representation from UC and the seminaries there, I don’t know if he could find one that would pass the vetting process. </p>
<p>Hunt - you are correct in your perceptions regarding the social element of the church as opposed to its doctrine, but the dynamics on the south side of Chicago, with the UC, and its fairly liberal seminaries may not be perceived by some as mainline Christian; most of the churches down in that enclave are very, very liberal. They have strong working relationships with each other (as exemplified with the connection between Pfleger and Wright) and are intertwined in many ways, community activism included. I wish the churches up in my very conservative northern suburban counties would learn a little about social activism from the south side churches.</p>
<p>As Rev. Wright put it in his Bill Moyers interview, “Very simply, [Obama] is a politician; I’m a pastor. We speak to two different audiences, and he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. Those are two different worlds. I do what I do. He does what politicians do. What happened in Philadelphia, where he had to respond to the sound bites, he responded as a politician.”</p>
<p>Rev. W has seen a fair number of politicians in Chicago over the past 30 or 40 years. What he is saying is that Obama is no different. This past weekend we saw once again Obama saying, “what he has to say as a politician.” Obama’s bubble has been burst. He transcends neither race nor politics. In fact he’s just another politician. Some things never change.</p>
<p>“Obama’s bubble has burst. He transcends neither race nor politics.”</p>
<p>Yep. I might like him better if he would cease and desist from pretending otherwise. So would many others, I suspect. Americans can love a scoundrel (see Bill Clinton) but they hate a phony.</p>
<p>“most of the churches in Hyde Park have strong liberal representation from UC and the seminaries there”</p>
<p>We do have LDS and Catholic churches that are doctrinally true to their (conservative) parents, and a Conservative synagogue, but I’m sure they have liberal congregations.</p>
<p>All the local faith organizations are devoted to interfaith interaction and cooperation. We’ve had a local Interfaith Council for 97 years that runs charities in the community and runs a huge multifaith Thanksgiving service every year. I’m proud to be a supporter of this organization.</p>