Obamacare increases (warning minor rant)

[dstark]

The larger the network, the more likely there will be higher costs.

I have not found doctors accepting off exchange plans and not accepting similar on exchange plans. The key word is similar. The plans are coded.

@dietz199, For a few years you have been stressing over Obamacare. Yet…you keep getting group coverage.

United Healthcare is not a player in the exchange market in a vast majority of states.

There are three things off the top of my head that can hurt Obamacare. One is politics. Two is healthcare costs continuing to rise faster than incomes. Three is limiting the ability of Obamacare to change and fix problems. This is one of United Healthcare’s issues (Also politics). If society restricted companies abilities to change the way politicians put restrictions on Obamacare, our economy would implode. Number 3 is low iq stuff.

Last I checked…Anthem and Kaiser are happy in Calif with Obamacare.

[Cardinal_Fang]

In California all pricing is also overseen by the state, for both on-exchange and off-exchange plans.

We couldn’t save any money buying off the exchange.

[lookingforward]

I’ll give an example of why it’s insufficient to read something and assume it’s the whole story. One major insurer in my area is eliminating jobs to go to a contract data service. Oooh, some say. But they always had contact employees, the difference was they were on-prem. So the net is a projected savings to the company, (in effect, a supplier shift,) but no loss of service to the clients. (Of course, I’m sorry about the loss of local jobs.)

[dietz199]

Yes, I did get another year of group coverage. We were not asked to re-certify. It’s now ACA compliant and $1800/month for H and I. Oh, and the deductible is higher and the OOP costs are higher than the previous non ACA compliant plan. If I can drag this out long enough H will be on Medicare and Kaiser will come to town. Then I’ll hold a parade.

[dstark]

Your husband and you are in your 50’s?

You are paying $1800 a month because you want a better network?

My wife and I are going to pay about $1200 for a bronze plan. We are almost 60.
Finally got my disabled daughter on medi-cal. It took 21 phone calls…or was it 23?

So we save money there!

[dietz199]

H is over 60. We have a bronze PPO plan. It has a network far superior to any offering on the individual market. As long as it’s a group plan it is a legitimate business expense.

The individual plan offerings for my area are not attractive. Hopefully this will change soon the Kaiser rumor is being substantiated.

We also pay about 3K for DS for a great plan offered thru his college.

[dstark]

These plans are very expensive.

My wife is consulting part time. Wants to quit working in 2017. This means the end of deducting insurance premiums for us. Right when we are in are 60’s.

Well…there is more to life than money…

[dietz199]

Haha…yes there is…there is always more of OTHER peoples’ money

The latest CBO report …https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/workingpaper/51065-ACA_Labor_Market_Effects_WP.pdf

Abstract
The Affordable Care Act (ACA) will make the labor supply, measured as the total compensation paid to workers, 0.86 percent smaller in 2025 than it would have been in the absence of that law, the Congressional Budget Office estimates. Three-quarters of that decline will occur because of health insurance expansions, which raise effective tax rates on earnings from labor—for instance, by phasing out health insurance subsidies as people’s income rises—and thus reduce the amount of labor that workers choose to supply. The labor force is projected to be about 2 million full-time-equivalent workers smaller in 2025 under the ACA than it would have been otherwise. Those estimates were based mainly on CBO’s calculations of the effects of the law’s major components on marginal and average tax rates and on the agency’s analysis of research about the change in the labor supply resulting from a change in tax rates. For components of the law that were difficult to express in terms of changes in tax rates, CBO based its estimates on a review of the available literature about similar policy changes.

And the beat goes on…

[dstark]

@dietz199,

You are deducting your health insurance premiums.

[dietz199]

As long as we have group coverage and run a business it is legal to deduct the premiums. It is my understanding that if we go to individual plans it is no longer a business expense and thus does not come out of ‘that’ bucket. Frankly…it’s gotten so complicated in many areas that we just trust our tax guy.

Received this from BS…interesting…

Your employees can see how their Blue Shield of California PPO health plan can help them take control of their healthcare spending. Our new video shows how our online Treatment Cost Estimator* simplifies planning for upcoming medical care.

Our Treatment Cost Estimator can help them compare their out-of-pocket costs, total treatment cost estimates, and provide information about conditions and treatments!

After seeking care with a provider, members can use our Treatment Cost Estimator to find valuable information that will allow them to:

Participate in decisions about their health care
Search and browse for more than 1,600 network procedures and treatments
Find a list of questions to ask their healthcare providers
Find and compare cost estimates for procedures and treatment options
Compare cost savings between hospital settings and surgical centers for many treatments
Get average regional costs for procedures and treatments
Get an estimate of how long the different phases of care might take

I haven’t watched the video but it it’s truly a way to compare costs between providers then it would be a huge step in the right direction.

[dstark]

This is reality…

http://kff.org/private-insurance/issue-brief/tax-subsidies-for-private-health-insurance/

If you get a deduction…somebody else pays.

[dietz199]

Yes, it’s complicated. Thanks for the link, I’ll forward this to our appropriate number crunchers.

[zobroward]

the smoke and mirrors are not working, but this is no surprise.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-condition-gone-critical-life-113000762.html

[dstark]

@dietz199,

The link is for you. So…when you complain about people using other people’s money…you are also talking about yourself.

The federal and state tax systems provide significant financial benefits for people with private health insurance. The largest group of beneficiaries is people who enroll in coverage through their jobs. There also are tax benefits for people who are self-employed and for people with high medical costs. Recently, the Affordable Care Act (ACA) provided for new premium tax credits to assist low and moderate income families purchasing coverage directly from insurers (nongroup coverage).

The value of these tax benefits is substantial. The largest tax subsidy for private health insurance — the exclusion from income and payroll taxes of employer and employee contributions for employer-sponsored insurance (ESI) – was estimated to cost approximately $250 billion in lost federal tax revenue in 2013.1 The new premium tax credits under the ACA were estimated by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to cost $45 billion in 2014, and increase to $146 billion in 2017, as more individuals enrolled in subsidized coverage.2 In addition, the federal tax deduction for health expenses (including premiums) exceeding 10% of the adjusted gross income is estimated to cost $12.4 billion in lost tax revenue in 2014.3Q

Despite the important role that the tax system plays in subsiding private coverage, the amount of the benefit received by individuals and families is often not well understood because the tax code is complex, and the value that families receive from tax exclusions and other tax subsidies can vary substantially with income and individual circumstances. Another complicating factor is that the largest tax incentive for private insurance — the exclusion of the cost of ESI — is an indirect subsidy that is never actually reported to the individuals and families who benefit from it. Many people with employer coverage are probably not aware that the federal and state tax exclusions for private health insurance provides them with a subsidy worth several thousands of dollars a year.

[dietz199]

Sure…I’ll go with that…i’ve also clearly stated that, at least for now, we are in a position of passing on these additional cost directly to our customers. Those customers are college students.

[dstark]

That’s good…because it’s true.

You have saved thousands and thousands of dollars over the years.

With one caveat…

Healthcare costs might be lower without all these deductions. The healthcare industry benefits immensely with all these deductions and credits.

The mortgage deduction is beneficial to the real estate industry as is the property tax deduction and tax free exchanges.

Capital gains tax exclusion is beneficial to the financial industry and the real estate industry…

We can go on and on…

[dietz199]

Yup…and rising college costs which are supported by easily obtained federally subsidized loans are good for the family business

We’ve built quite the financial Jenga tower.

[dstark]

Yep…

[dstark]

A few friends and I looked into investing in apartments and housing used for college students. We never pulled the trigger. We were a little afraid of college students trashing places.

Sounds like these type of investments have worked for you. Guess I screwed this one up.

[NJres]

Here is an ACA question that just popped up. Our son has been working in an hourly job with no healthcare, so he signed up for an ACA policy with subsidy in 2015. For 2016 he signed up again, this year he opted for a lower level bronze policy that is $36 per month after subsidy. Today he received a notice from his employer that after working there for 1 year he is now elgible for their healthplan, oh joy! He would have to pay $125/month for this employer sponsored plan! He must sign up within 30 days or he cannot sign up. I know when he signed up for the ACA plan he had to certify that he is not elibible for an employer provided plan, which he wasn’t. This month he is. But if he doesn’t sign up by Jan 31 he will not be eligible for an employer sponsored plan. I am wondering what he should do. Sign up for employer plan @ $125/month. Doing nothing is not an option, because he is not elibible for a subsidized ACA plan, at least not this month.