Obama's Inconsistency on Fatherhood

Parent Cafe
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<p>Poetsheart, sounds like you are getting ready for a high-tech lynching and trying to whip up the mob. How do you know what sex I am?</p>

22

<p>Well, according to a mciver post on another thread, I’d say you are female.</p>

<p>Don’t much care for Hillary Clinton either, do you, mciver?</p>

<p>I took poetsheart’s “he” to be the generic pronoun and not indicative of gender. I know some people take issue with the use of “he” as a generic pronoun; others find it efficient.</p>

23

<p>Whether you’re a he or she, makes not one wit of difference. A ■■■■■ can be either sex.</p>

<p>And as as for lynching—high tech or otherwise—you’re the one who has hung herself:rolleyes: by your own tongue!</p>

24

<p>“For ‘tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his owne petar”</p>

<p>I don’t think mciver is a ■■■■■; as I said, she’s posted here before. I do think she is looking for an argument, though. Must be slow in the law office, for her to have to come here to find one!</p>

25

<p>I see that my original post about whether or not Obama has unwittingly contradicted his prior position that ONLY a woman has the exclusive right over her unborn child/fetus has touched a very deep nerve. I was hoping for a more intellectual level of discourse but apparently those who have chosen to respond want to chase me off the thread by calling me a ■■■■■, an Obama-hater, a Clinton-hater, a woman hater, an anti-choice person, and even worse, a MAN!!!</p>

<p>However, instead of being chased away, I’ll invite those who are able to more rationally discuss the original post to submit their equally valid opinions.
It doesn’t matter whether I am a man or woman or white or black. You would be surprised at the answer to both questions, but I’m not going to tell. What difference does it make to the argument at hand? </p>

<p>Sweet are the uses of adversity,
which like the toad (■■■■■) ugly and venomous,
wears yet a precious jewel on its head;
And this our life, exempt from public haunt,
Finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks;
Sermons in stones and good in every thing…</p>

26

<p>You have gotten myriad rational discussions of why your argument doesn’t hold water. You have chosen to ignore them.</p>

27

<p>Mciver may not be a ■■■■■, I’ll concede that point, but he/she was itching to bash Obama with an extremely specious and disingenuous argument.</p>

28

<p>If you asked Obama about whether the father should be there during a woman’s abortion, then I think his answer would be yes. The responsibility starts at conception, not at birth. It seems to me that OP is trying to create doubt in people’s minds about Obama’s commitment to choice and at the same time to create doubt in people’s minds about whether life begins at conception.</p>

<p>FWIW, I strongly believe that life begins at conception and I am strongly pro-choice and I find no inconsistency in those two.</p>

29

<p>he’s not saying they’re responsible for the fetus before birth; he’s saying they’re responsible for that child after birth, so don’t disappear after conception.
I agree with this reading.</p>

<p>It is obviously clear that Obama is not discussing pregnancies in the scientific terms of zygote/embryo/fetus, but to quote a Hallmark card " anyone can father- but it takes a man to be a dad".
He wants men, especially “men” that stick around long enough for the " fun " part, but not for the long haul, to grow up & be parents.
It has nothing to do with " when life begins", but about accountability.
[KC</a> Call](<a href=“http://www.kccall.com/article.cfm?articleid=2509]KC”>http://www.kccall.com/article.cfm?articleid=2509)</p>

30

<p>I had to laugh at the idea that a ridiculous and baseless claim “touched a very deep nerve” because people pointed it out to you. I will admit that unjustified Obama-bashing is beginning to get on my nerves, both the deep ones and the ones on the surface.</p>

31

<p>I expect as the election gets closer, the grasping at straws will become more frequent.
I have noticed some interesting changes between this and the previous election however.
I was just in a Republican enclave yesterday ( Bellevue), and while I have received many positive comments on my Obama bumberstickers and buttons in liberal Seattle, I wasn’t sure what to expect on the Eastside.
But I had quite a few people come up to me and mention that they were going to vote for Obama. I think the voters are really excited for the election, I didn’t have that happen when Kerry was running.
;)</p>

32

<p>Please folks, the OP made one post to start this thread. Please do not feed the ■■■■■. Any idiot could see this wasn’t a speech that touched on the pro-choice/anti-choice debate at all. The OP is either an idiot or, more likely, is just a ■■■■■.</p>

<p>Do Not Feed The ■■■■■: DNFTT by responding to him/her.</p>

33

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<p>I vote for you, BZ, as the start of this ■■■■■ thread. ;)</p>

<p>Actually, I have no proof. But seriously, if you don’t agree with Obama’s pro-choice position just don’t vote for him. Don’t try to bastardize his speech about ■■■■■■■ children, though.</p>

34

<p>“Mciver may not be a ■■■■■, I’ll concede that point, but he/she was itching to bash Obama with an extremely specious and disingenuous argument.”</p>

<p>Agreed. I’ve heard his rant before and don’t need to hear it again. And Hunt, I’m with you. I’m getting so sick of mean-spirited Obama bashers that pop up here and there.</p>

35

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<p>It makes no difference whatsoever, of course.</p>

<p>From one of your previous posts here:</p>

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<p>Just wanted you to know that, unless your veracity is as questionable as your interpretation of Obama’s speech, you’re already on record as being female. Source: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/458374-hillary-s-history-4.html#post1059754142[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/458374-hillary-s-history-4.html#post1059754142&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

36

<p>I don’t know if the OP is a ■■■■■ or not but the OP brings up an interesting point. I’m no ■■■■■ btw. In Obama’s recent Meet the Press interview after the Jeremiah Wright fiasco with the recently departed Tim Russert, Obama stated that his allegiance was “to the Church and Christ”, and not to Pastor Wright. I’ve wondered to myself until this post, how could Obama reconcile his faith, in which he states his allegiance to the “Church and Christ”, and yet take a pro choice position and accept endorsements from Planned Parenthood and other pro-choice advocates? </p>

<p>Until recently, Obama has been able to rise above his detractors while staying relatively ambiguous on certain issues. It will be interesting to see how he and his “handlers” will be able to navigate his campaign over issues that become more definitive in the upcoming months.</p>

37

<p>madville, he’s not referring to the Catholic church. Many churches take no position on the legality of abortion. Nor did Christ have anything to say on the subject, as far as we know, although if he had, people would doubtless read his words in thousands of different ways, just as they do his words on other topics.</p>

38

<p>I’m not sure I understand your point. There isn’t one monolithic Christian position on abortion (I’m not trying to start a debate on the issue, just pointing out a reality.) It’s up to him and his beliefs as to where he stands on the issue–there isn’t a dogma that he is constrained to abide by. Christians of good will take positions from one end of the spectrum to the other, here as in many places.</p>

<p>Edit: crossposted with Hanna</p>

39

<p>I have both pro-choice and pro-life friends who support Obama. How these practicing Christians reconcile this with their religious views, one way or the other, is their personal concern, but I respect their feelings and certainly don’t see any of them as hypocrites. … </p>

<p>Also, don’t forget, madville, that McCain has “handlers” as well. It’s the nature of the political beast these days. Kind of sad, but true. Both Obama and McCain have rough waters to navigate through the rest of this campaign, and it’s going to get ugly. Both will be smeared mercilessly–and unfairly. It’s been the same since our democracy was born. At the turn of the 19th century, presidential foes and erstwhile friends Adams and Jefferson slung mud at one another with tremendous vigor–Jefferson said that Adams wanted to be “King,” while Adams called Jefferson a Godless soul who would strip the new country of religion. Alas. … </p>

<p>I happen to love Obama for a number of reasons, but also think McCain–who I disagree with on Iraq and other issues–is a decent man. Far moreso than the creeping-crud that’s occupied the White House these past 7-plus years.</p>

40

<p>madville, Obama doesn’t need to reconcile is faith with his pro-choice stance; they are not at odds with one another. Obama is a Congregationalist, a member of the United Church of Christ. </p>

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<p>Source: <a href=“http://www.ucc.org/justice/advocacy_resources/pdfs/reproductive-health-and-justice/reproductive-health-and-justice.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ucc.org/justice/advocacy_resources/pdfs/reproductive-health-and-justice/reproductive-health-and-justice.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;