<p>“She says she loves her children unconditionally and that means that she’s better than a lot of parents.”</p>
<p>My cousin was a drug using, homeless, single mom, who got pregnant every time the state was going to finally make her go to work. She moved in with her parents or her siblings or stayed in a car. But she stood there and told me she was a better Mom because she loved her kids and stayed home with them, while I went to work. And she believed it. A lot of folks live in lala land.</p>
<p>“I do think that 4 full time, reasonably sane adults living in the same home could raise the whole crew…”</p>
<p>I don’t think so. Remember that in addition to all of the infants, there is an autistic child.</p>
<p>She’s clearly attempting to repopulate the Earth. But hey, at least it’s not as bad as that Dugger family, with the 18 kids.</p>
<p>Hanna; granted she can “he surgeon can and does tell the patient “no” and refer him to a psychiatrist.”</p>
<p>but what do you think would happen then? As a person, I have the same thoughts and feelings as most of you, but I also know it is a slippery slope when individuals get to decide what is normal and what is not. I don’t know exactly what bearing the ethics and guidelines of reproductive medicine have said about this situation, but I am well aware that the ethics and guidelines of psychiatric medicine would be unlikely to have any bearing. </p>
<p>I am always. …ahem… amused, when people on forums make psychiatric diagnosis. It is much more difficult than it sounds, and I believe it should be. A referral to psychiatry for “competency”, a legal term, is usually limited to determining whether or not a patient understands the risk and benefits of a procedure. You can be psychotic and still be judged competent. I also know that “clearance” (different from competence) can be required for things like bariatric surgery (gastric bypass), but the psychiatrist doesn’t define the guidelines, the surgeon does. </p>
<p>Many of you might be aware of how difficult it is to get a loved one involuntarily ( psychiatrically) hospitalized. It is a terrible situation, but it’s a situation society has determined, not the Psychiatrist. It is determined largely because we live in a society that puts individual freedoms over government control in many situations (I believe finances a role too, but that’s for another thread).</p>
<p>rachael, I don’t truly support the Duggar family either but there is a big difference between them and Ms. Sulemon. The Duggar’s kids are spread out over at least a 20 year range for their births. While older kids also need parenting, it is not at the same level as babies and preschoolers. As well, older kids can help with younger ones in a multi-age setting. This doesn’t remotely compare to 14 kids under age 7, where one has autism, and where 8 are all infants at one time (and preemies at that) who also may have disabilities. The Duggars have two parents. They also have the funds. I am not in favor of their choices, mind you, but to each their own. But the situation with the Duggars is quite different than with Sulemon.</p>
<p>So-- she received $165,000 in disablity payments for a on-the-job back injury…
and now she is going to care for 14 children…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Gee, I’m so sorry I “subjected” my S to only-child-hood.</p>
<p>I guess I should have given him away to someone who was a better breeder.</p>
<p>I can’t agree with Starbright that keeping these kids together is best for them. I grew up in a family of six kids, born within 7.5 years, and let me tell you, some days it was like a battlefield. There just weren’t enough outlets for all of us, there wasn’t enough of my Mom’s time, and having a lot of young kids together constantly breeds a lot of conflict. And this was with two highly educated parents and four devoted grandparents available to give us love and continuity. Raising a huge group of kids with hired help is not the same, especially when the decision maker/money manager is delusional. This family can only go from bad to worse, and the worst is no where near the Duggars - the worst is massive neglect of the kids’ most basic needs.</p>
<p>The logistics alone are mind boggling without even considering the nurturing of each child. You would need one person just to do the food shopping to feed that quantity of people on a regular basis and to do the laundry and related tasks. That person cannot also do the care of the kids. And then with infants, there are the feedings, rockings and diaper changing and one person could not do that for 8 at a time (even in a day care center for infants, the ratio is much better and required…long ago, I worked in infant day care at Harvard Business School). Who will these people be? Will they need to be paid? </p>
<p>Social services will have to get involved because the children’s needs must be met.</p>
<p>LOL nysmile!
You were a little more blunt about her plastic face than I was !! </p>
<p>There are so many things that simply don’t add up. And I agree with you-- her behaviors are consistent with self-focused (“me”) behaviors, not all that uncommon in some “onlies” who didn’t have the experience of learning about sharing and the needs of other people when they were growing up. I agree with you-- this isn’t about what is best for her kids- it is about what is best for her-- what her wants and needs are, not theirs. If her upbringing was so “dysfunctional”, why is she living with her parents and expecting them to raise her kids? Since she has a degree in child development, she should have some idea what she is facing with 8 low weight babies and the developmental risks they face. And she thinks that wit a Masters in counseling ( I am betting if she does try to finish her degree she’ll do it through an on-line program) she’s going to be able to earn enough to raise these kids? I guess we won’t be nominating her for healthcare czar.</p>
<p>If I lived in California and worked for the DMV…I would be spitting nails at her right now…they are forced to take unpaid vacation days every other Friday because it will save the govt millions of dollars, the govt didn’t realize what they are saving they are now handing over to her to pay the medical bills for her children. Heck I would also be ticked as a citizen b/c the govt can afford to pay back my taxes, but now this woman has added to the burden.</p>
<p>I also picked up on her saying she had been trying for 7 yrs before she became pregnant. Her mother had stated even as a teenager she was obsessed with being pregnant. So at 18/19 she was going out and having sex just to have a kid. Let’s be real, she was having unprotected sex, she didn’t even think about STDs so as long as she got pregnant. </p>
<p>Ann Curry asked if the doctor knew she had 6 children at home and she said yes.</p>
<p>Another favorite was people are against her because she is single, nobody would say anything if she was married (I am sure she was hinting at J&K and the Duggars) Guess what it’s not the IVF, it’s not the octuplets, it is the fact that you could not financially afford the 6 you had. You moved into your Moms house last March with your 6 children because you lost yours, but somehow you found the money to do IVF and rationalized that you needed to do this.</p>
<p>She has the maturity of her 7 yr old son. </p>
<p>To me its mind boggling that when I thought she didn’t get it that her publicist let her go on the air. I am a rational person and I would tell her if you say that you are going back to school so you can support them and not be a burden…the avg American won’t buy it. It is unrealistic to think that people can’t use their own brain to say what are you going to do get up at 3 in the morning so you can get them all out by 7 for your 8 am class. You have so much love, but other people will be raising them. You actually believe that a counselor is going to make enough money…the people at DYFS are laughing their butt off right now, because they know she might make 70K, no where near enough.</p>
<p>THIS IS WHAT i WANT TO ASK ANN CURRY…DID YOU WALK OUT OF THE INTERVIEW LAUGHING YOUR BUTT OFF OF HOW STUPID AND INANE HER ANSWERS SEEMED…If I were her I don’t think I could have kept a straight face.</p>
<p>I have said it before I am a realtor, all of my clients are talking about her and not one has a positive opinion. She needs to sell her story to some company in Europe</p>
<p>:) a little more blunt I suppose. I posted right after watching the clip and had to vent a little. She’s too focused on what she wants with little regard as to how her decisions effect others around her. I don’t buy the excuse that her behavior is a product of being an only child. The scary thing is that watching and listening to her reminded me of watching Casey Anthony in those jailhouse clips–the stupid fake smile, the sad attempt at trying to make the public sympathetic to her, and the need to be the center of attention. Anyone else notice a personality similarity between the two of them?</p>
<p>“Hanna; granted she can “he surgeon can and does tell the patient “no” and refer him to a psychiatrist.” but what do you think would happen then?”</p>
<p>Either the patient sees the psychiatrist, or refuses to see the psychiatrist. Either way, she doesn’t get the dangerous elective surgery she requested.</p>
<p>“I am well aware that the ethics and guidelines of psychiatric medicine would be unlikely to have any bearing.”</p>
<p>I said nothing to the contrary. The question was about whether the OBGYN could be sued for refusing to implant 6+ embryos at a time. The answer is, absolutely not. Surgeons, especially cosmetic surgeons, often refuse to provide elective treatment that a patient requests.</p>
<p>“I am always. …ahem… amused, when people on forums make psychiatric diagnosis.”</p>
<p>I can’t speak for anyone else, but I do say with confidence that this woman is nuts. That’s the technical term.</p>
<p>“the psychiatrist doesn’t define the guidelines, the surgeon does.”</p>
<p>Of course. The patient doesn’t have to TAKE the referral to the psychiatrist; the surgeon just has a responsibility to give a referral a shot if a “surgical” patient presents with what appear to be psychotic delusions.</p>
<p>" My first reaction to watching the clip was that she is trying to be Angelina Jolie. It definitely looks like she had plastic surgery on her lips. Creepy. "</p>
<p>Mine too…she reminds me of Michael Jackson. I would be curious to see a picture of her before she was awarded any lawsuit money, just to see if she went to a plastic surgeon with a pic of Jolie in hand with ideas of transforming herself into an image of Angelina Jolie ( who also has a lot of children , but no problems affording them )</p>
<p>I watched the interview this morning , not knowing what to expect , but I found her to be very defensive and trying to come off as being a little bit better parent than most people are capable of being.</p>
<p>Also , regarding the Duggars, I don’t understand them , but they do seems to take care of them . They can afford them and they seem to be clean, well fed, loved and educated.
Not my cup of tea , but it seems to work for their family unit. It doesn’t compare to this woman IMO.</p>
<p>Here’s what I want everybody to pay attention when watching the interview…her fingernails…I have never done gel/acryllic, but you can always tell them from a mile away. She has a perfect french manicure…now for all of us moms that had only 1 child…did any of you have the energy to sit there and get a manicure let alone fake nails. C’mon…if she is such a great Mom, she should know that trimming her nails to the nubs would be better, then having fake nails placed on for an interview to show how you just care about all of them. I guess she was luck b/c she slept in the hospital for weeks and even after delivery, compared to me who got the 1st night off for the 1st 18 yrs</p>
<p>I was thinking about this, she got the 165K in disability starting 01…that is 8 yrs, 20K per yr…how do you raise all of those kids on an income of 20K without asking for help…she might not have ever been on Welfare, but she definetely had WIC and probably Medicaid. She is parsing her words. I want her to go on with somebody like Bill O’Reilly no softball questions. I want answers like, how did you pay for the IVF…how did you support the family and get IVF if you only got 165K for 8 yrs…you live in a 3 bdrm, 1500 sqft home, how can you fit 15 people in there… your mother filed bankruptcy, your father is working in Iraq to support your children do you feel any remorse…How will you be able to pay for childcare while you get your Masters…why didn’t you go straight to work after getting your undergrad…what about your Autistic son…is it fair to him.</p>
<p>I know Ann Curry will also be talking to the kids, but be real they have not a clue how their life is going to be impacted. All they know is that they are happy Mommy is home again.</p>
<p>^^ Pima - great catch about those nails!</p>
<p>I think she is bitter…she just doesn’t get why people are appalled. She thinks it is because she is single…not because she already had 6 under 7. She doesn’t get that people think she is nuts.</p>
<p>Yesterday her publicist made the rounds, and stated they were still reviewing offers…BS…they already had planned for her to be interviewed with Ann Curry…she works in NY, she had to fly to California set it up so the media wouldn’t know , edit and be able to air at 7 am this morning.</p>
<p>The publicist said when America sees her they will realize she is a great girl and MOM…I think the publicist did what she was suppose to do…sell manure. She did this interview in hopes to change opinion…she failed and did so horribly. Has anyone checked the posts on NBC for this interview…I am off to see if there are any</p>
<p>The only reason it hit home with me is b/c in the judaism belief you do not have baby showers or decorate the room until after the birth. We are catholic, Bullet’s Mom is jewish, out of respect for her I didn’t have one until DS1 was born. I remember painting them at 3 in the morning the day of the shower b//c he woke up and I couldn’t fall back to sleep. I didn’t get them done and I am sure that I had paint on my cuticles from exhaustion. He was 7 days old.</p>
<p>I think she’s mad as a hatter. The nails were one thing, and it certainly appears that she had other work done on her face. What a horrible, horrible situation. It doesn’t even appear that she comprehends that the children are each, individually, human beings!!!</p>
<p>NBC has no blog, but here is the link…[url=<a href=“http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/29038814/]Octuplet”>http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/29038814/]Octuplet</a> mom defends </p>