OECD calls US educational standards mediocre

[achat]

<p>Many of these countries are also new in terms of how many years they have been independent (e.g India from 1947). Also a LOT poorer (not Taiwan or Japan). And don’t have the luxury of prioritizing pollution control or other quality of life issues. Well, they should but they have many more problems to deal with. And many countries such as India do not have a public school system to speak of. The highly competitive graduates who come here to study from there are middle or upper-middle class, mostly upper-middle class. Their parents can afford to send them to prep classes for the highly competitive exams and to good private schools to get a good base in Math in the first place.</p>

[marite]

<p>Really, I don’t see the relationship between the level of pollution and education. How can Hong Kong schools do a job (better or otherwise) of prioritizing qulaity of life? They can teach math, sure, but pollution? We, the country of SUVs and unbridled consumption, are not in a good position to preach to the rest of the world about pollution.
As for sweatshops, Hong Kong has exported them to the PRC and Vietnam.</p>

[interesteddad]

<br>

<blockquote>
<p>I don’t see the relationship between the level of pollution and education.</p>
</blockquote>

<br>

<p>What is the purpose of education? I don’t think it is limited to preparing for standardized math exams. The real reason that societies invest in education is to prepare people for being responsible, productive citizens and effective leaders. The values and priorities of a society are inextricably linked to its education system. For example, a reason that US universities are so highly valued is their astonishing degree of academic and intellectual freedom – reflective of a core value of our society.</p>

<p>I sure that US math scores were probably better when school children wore uniforms and got their hands smacked with a ruler by taskmaster schoolmarms for a wrong answer. But, that style of education does not fit with OUR cultural values. Maybe our cultural values are wrong, but they are what they are.</p>

<p>I bet that anyone here could devise a plan to boost math scores in US school while reducing spending. It’s easy. Cull the dummy kids and dummy schools out at early age and concentrate on the smart kids. Get rid of the community college budgets because there will be no need for wasting money on the “culls”. Make passing an advanced math exam the sole determining factor between going to college and a career as an auto mechanic. Get rid of all extracurriculars except violin lessons, SAT prep classes, and church school on Saturday. Voila! </p>

<p>But, that education system would not be reflective of our cultural values, so we muddle along with what we’ve got. For better or for worse. Judging by immigration patterns, it seems that a lot of folk think the better outweighs the worse.</p>

[interesteddad]

<br>

<blockquote>
<p>We, the country of SUVs and unbridled consumption, are not in a good position to preach to the rest of the world about pollution.</p>
</blockquote>

<br>

<p>I don’t know about that. Seems to me that Western Europe and North America (and perhaps Australia) are home to the only countries that don’t have continuing large scale pollution. Seems like a pretty good postion for preaching.</p>

[mini]

<p>'What is the purpose of education? I don’t think it is limited to preparing for standardized math exams. The real reason that societies invest in education is to prepare people for being responsible, productive citizens and effective leaders."</p>

<p>Or to ensure that there is a surplus labor pool prepared to serve their betters. It’s called “preparing our youth for the challenges for the 21st century.” In case you haven’t heard, it ain’t Boeing engineers. It’s Wal-Mart clerks.</p>

[sangria]

<p>On pollution: I rather suspect that the USA exports its pollution - but anyway, I looked at the newspapers today and, coincidentally, found these two articles:</p>

<p><a href=“http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/storyprintfriendly/0,5578,292242,00.html?[/url]”>http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/storyprintfriendly/0,5578,292242,00.html?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>and</p>

<p><a href=“http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/review/story/0,5562,292286,00.html?[/url]”>http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/review/story/0,5562,292286,00.html?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>(I hope the links can be accessed properly; since I had to log in to my account to read them.)</p>

<p>I suppose my country’s identity is now obvious, but ah well.
interesteddad’s point about a society’s education system reflecting its cultural values seems very true, to me. Our society emphasizes respecting and knowing our cultural heritage, hence a minimum of 10 years’ worth of “Mother Tongue” language classes, resulting in the majority of schoolchildren being bilingual. Racial harmony is also emphasized, hence social studies classes in elementary school, studying the different cultures that comprise our society. As our society has changed over the years, so has our education system - while, in the old days, it was focused on rote-learning, creative project work and interdisciplinary projects are now encouraged. Instead of an old one-size-fits-all kind of syllabus, we now have increasing flexibility in schools’ curriculums, such that each student is better able to customize his/her learning by selecting which subjects he/she wants to take, and to what degree they want to study these subjects. There are still core requirements and rigour, but there are now more creative approaches to learning, and better educational opportunities available to more of the masses. Sometimes it’s not so much the present state of things that matters as it is the future state of things, I think. While some developing / newly-developed countries may not compare to the other more affluent developed countries presently, they seem to be making excellent preparations to progress towards that level.</p>

[tlaktan]

<p>Something completely irrelevant, but I was actually in PISA testing … to determine the state of our educational standards… lol… they gave us a 100 minute phone card that expired 6 months later…</p>

<p>I demand my 3 hours of my life back!</p>

[poetsheart]

<p>Ok, Tokenadult. I guess it’s a reflection of my subpar U.S. education that I’ve have not yet definitively figured out the name of the nation whose educational system you hold to be the standard bearer for the rest of the world. I’m not very good at Jeapardy either. So condescend to spell it out for me. Which country is it? Taiwan?</p>

<p>Also, I have another question, if you would be so kind as to hazard a guess: As a result of our failure to educate our populace to the standard of the rest of the industrialized world, how do you think this failure will ultimately effect the status of the United States as a world social and economic power? Indeed, how did we even get to where we are today? Are we doomed? Will your as yet unnamed nation take over? Should we all be applying for a permanent visa to reside in this paradise? Indeed, how do you even stand to remain here?</p>

[Duskstamper]

<p>Wow. So much hostility here.

Bingo! But, my point is that the pollution is directly tied to the priorities of the society, which in turn are reflected in the totality of the education system.

</p>

<p>You are implying that China/Eastern Asian countries’ educational values derive from the recent “industrialization” they have gone through (hence the pollution). This is wrong. China has always been an education-based country. </p>

<p>Quote from Paris’s UNESCO: International Bureau of Education

‘You believe you have studied enough? Then take up a post in the civil service’, headvised his disciples (Analects, Zi Zhang). This radical stand against the principle of the hereditary transmission of posts was reflected in the system of training and appointingofficials that was later adopted in feudal society, and served as the theoretical basis for the selection process introduced under the Han Dynasty, and later for the imperial examinationprocedure that would be followed throughout the Sui and Tang Dynasties and up to the fall of the Manchus; it was also central to the feudal education system as a whole.

</p>

<p>For thousands of years the Chinese have concentrated on the academics, not recently because of her “industralization”. French philosophes expressed that the Chinese merit-based civil-service exams, instead of mere nepotism, is the best way to ensure an effective bureaucracy. Our American society reflects this testing mentality. We have the SATS, GMATS, MCATS, etc. As a child, I remember taking standardized tests almost every year. I’ve taken many APs, SAT IIs, and the SAT three times. </p>

<p>

So for example, Hong Kong schools may do a fine job of prioritizing math achievement test scores, but an utterly miserable job of prioritizing quality of life issues such as controlling pollution.

</p>

<p>First of all, the top American schools prioritize math achievement scores as well. Rest assured that the top schools in America do look at the Math IIC and the SAT Math Section: Both are vitally important and is a factor in one’s acceptance into a college. </p>

<p>Your second assertion is ridiculous. It’s a simple strawman. Do I have to cite Bush’s “clear skies” initiative or the fact that he’s “increasing” the number of wetlands in our nation? The industries in our country do not adhere to strict pollution laws; we’re making them more lax! Hell, why did we pull out of the Kyoto treaty? Please, pollution has NOTHING to do with education. The asian education-based mindset DOES. The point of a good education, in asians’ minds, is to provide better quality of life for the family. </p>

<p>

One reason that there is so much economic growth in Asia right now is that much of Asia is in a similar phase of economic development as Europe and the US was during the industrial revolution. Basically, unfettered capitalism without restraint or regard to poisoning the environment or worker’s benefits.

</p>

<p>Unfettered capitalism is also occurring in America as well. We’re turning into a free market society; we’ve followed Margaret Thatcher’s footsteps. Van Hayek’s free market theories are becoming reality; do you really think we’d adhere to Keynesian economics forever? That died with President Carter! Corporations like WalMart (8/10 Americans shop there), Microsoft and the recent mergers of companies (Exxon-Mobil, Sears-Kmart, Sprint Nextel) eerily reminds us of Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan. Unions are losing power. Americans work longer than any other industrialized nation, even Japan! The government is not reigning in capitalism anymore; especially with this president at the helm. He supports lower taxes, vouchers, and the privitization of social security. </p>

<p>You also want to look at worker’s benefits? <a href=“http://www.livejournal/users/ea_spouse/[/url]”>www.livejournal/users/ea_spouse/</a></p>

<p>Worker’s benefits in America have been at her lowest since the 1930s.</p>

<p>My point is that the world has changed. The socialist experiment is over for many countries. (See Russia, China, Cuba, America, Britain, et al) “Unfettered capitalism” is not just a Chinese phenomena, it’s a world wide one. </p>

<p>

These, in many ways, are nose-to-the-grindstone sweat shop economies and nose-to-the-grindstone sweat shop educational systems that punish a lack of “production”. This does a wonderful job of increasing widget production and math test scores; perhaps not so wonderful in producing leadership for a society that has moved past the industrial revolution stage.

</p>

<p>You are right. Asian countries are more technical. Or perhaps you’re looking at this at a more skewed perspective. America has too many lawyers and not enough scientists. </p>

<p>The following quotes are from a Periodical called the Tech Republic</p>

<p>

The United States has become more dependent on foreigners for its most-educated positions in science and engineering. Between 1990 and 2000, the proportion of foreign-born people with Ph.D.s in the science and engineering labor force rose from 24 percent to 38 percent, according to the NSF. However, the pipeline of foreign talent has been shrinking. The U.S. State Department issued 20 percent fewer visas for foreign students in 2001 than in 2000, and the rate fell further between 2001 and 2002, according to the National Science Board.

</p>

<p>Also, America is weakening engineering and math wise.
From the same periodical:</p>

<p>

According to the National Science Board, other countries are doing more to attract the best brains to their universities. The board also said increased security restrictions are partly behind a slower pace of visas given to students and science and engineering workers since Sept. 11, 2001. Norm Matloff, professor of computer science at the University of California at Davis, says students from abroad are less drawn to America because the country’s job opportunities in technology have withered.

</p>

<p>America does have great leadership, sure. However, perhaps America is too top heavy; too many managers and lawyers, not enough followers. You are right to criticize East Asian countries as well. They indeed do not emphasize leadership. </p>

<p>

Intel CEO Craig Barrett has weighed in on the issue to say that “the U.S. is basically complacent” about education and research.

</p>

<p>The TIMSS and other studies do reflect the weakening technological strength of America. Intel’s CEO himself said that. Look at our oil companies. The average age of the employees is above fifty. Where are they going to find anyone to continue the research and the work necessary to run oil companies?</p>

<p>

Japan is the only Asian country that has moved past the sweatshop stage and become a mature economy where quality of life issues counterbalance the desire for growth. Of course, Japan (like much of the US and Europe) is no longer viable as a low-cost manufacturing economy and now must focus on high-end value-added commercial enterprise. Like the US, Japan has been exporting its low wage dirty-work to Southeast Asia for several decades. Like any economy in a period of change, Japan is facing huge societal changes as the population increasingly refuses to accept the old “sweat-shop” ways.

</p>

<p>Agreed. However, this is true for the other Asian “tigers”, Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea. East China is showing some promise. </p>

<p>

As a result of our failure to educate our populace to the standard of the rest of the industrialized world, how do you think this failure will ultimately effect the status of the United States as a world social and economic power?

</p>

<p>America has some competition now.The European Union has bounced back nicely since WWII and China and India are getting much, much stronger. Their quality of education is also getting better. </p>

<p>

Are we doomed?

No.</p>

<p>

Will your as yet unnamed nation take over?

</p>

<p>Taiwan or Japan taking over is ridiculous. Their manpower and resources cannot compare to the United States. However, India and China both pose threats. </p>

<p>

Should we all be applying for a permanent visa to reside in this paradise? Indeed, how do you even stand to remain here?

</p>

<p>Why the sarcasm? Try to have a civil debate. The world is changing. America don’t be a hyperpower forever.</p>