<p>^ true. plus, where you go to grad school is far more important than where you go for undergrad.</p>
<p>I’ve seen many people in other threads tossing around the statistic that 50% of those admitted this year are athletes. Anyone have a credible source?</p>
<p>wikileaks</p>
<p>aka - I highly doubt it.</p>
<p>I bet. Whatever happened to good ol’ veritas?</p>
<p>i personally know they took a lax player from a southern school </p>
<p>[Women’s</a> Lacrosse -2011 Roster: Harvard Athletics - GoCrimson.com](<a href=“http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/wlax/2010-11/roster]Women’s”>http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/wlax/2010-11/roster)</p>
<p>they also got 2 mid distance xc runners, as well as a coxswain from another ivy league school</p>
<p>believe what u want lols</p>
<p>I’m hesitant to participate in this argument, as I fear whatever I say will be taken with a huge grain of salt by those assuming I’m just bitter about being rejected. But as every one of my ex-boyfriends (and ex-husband) will tell you, I simply was not wired with the capability to resist arguing if I think I have any point at all worth further exploration…</p>
<p>That being said, @bakemaster- Harvard officials have said (possibly even in articles that have been linked through THIS thread, if I remember correctly), that they do not do any sort of transfer recruiting- no brochures, pamphlets, etc. Why would they? They don’t have to, lol. They get 1600+ transfer applications without lifting a finger. As long as the Harvard name can be publicly uttered, there will be students trying to bust through the Crimson gates. We know that they DO recruit freshmen, but with only twelve spots available, it would pretty much just be cruel to send out pamphlets and other mailings to potential transfer applicants (of course they do recruit athletes, but that’s a whole other story, and involves personal contact, most likely from volunteering alumni or Harvard employees already on the payroll).
So, no money lost there. As far as paper costs, perhaps that’s why they’re one of few schools who offer email decisions to transfer students, eh? Besides, I think we’re maybe inflating some costs here just by adding words- you say “Many hundreds of dollars’ worth of file folders and label sheets,” but…seriously?? File folders can be recycled- either rip the label off of last year’s applicant folders, or simply place a new one on top of it- either way, they’re mostly reusing the same things here. And if they aren’t, shame, shame, Harvard. So, label sheets…Assuming these materials aren’t being donated by alumni, or there isn’t some kind of special deal that has been struck with a business that produces these items, I’m sure they receive a significant discount, as any business does, for buying these materials in bulk. So, what are we really talking here- a hundred bucks or something?
As for the wages, benefits, etc. of admission employees, sure, that’s a pretty penny- BUT, are these SPECIAL transfer admission people? Or are these the same admissions people who just finished the freshman process, now simply going over transfer apps instead? And do they have other jobs before the admissions circus begins and after it ends? If not, then yeah, I guess Harvard IS losing a significant amount of money by having to keep these people around for the extra weeks or months it takes to process the transfer apps in addition to the freshman ones, but…I mean, I don’t know, I’m asking- is that really how they do things? I would think, like most schools I’ve seen, the admissions-related employees have other tasks to take care of on the down time, as in, these are year-round employees. So if that’s the case, it’s not costing the school any more to have them reviewing transfer applications than they would be paying anyway.</p>
<p>For Harvard in particular, we know they employ the use of regional adcoms in order to split the work load, but again, is this not the same process used for freshman admissions? So are these people paid for their time reviewing these apps, meaning having the extra transfer apps to review would in fact cost Harvard more money? Or do they have other jobs throughout the year? As I said, I don’t know, I’m asking. Furthermore, are they paid at all??? Is this part of the process yet another huge task covered by alumni volunteers? That would mean it certainly isn’t costing Harvard a bunch of money to review our apps. I did find this in the Harvard Gazette:
"Faced with 35,000 applicants, our alumni/ae interviewers contributed to our process as never before,” said Marlyn E. McGrath, director of admissions. "
and
"Our 10,000 alumni/ae volunteers around the world are irreplaceable in other ways as well — attending college nights, visiting schools, and calling newly admitted students and hosting gatherings for them in April. There is no way we can thank them enough for their loyalty and devotion to Harvard,” she said.</p>
<p>Added Elizabeth Adams, liaison to the Alumni/ae Schools and Scholarship Committees, “We are particularly grateful to our alumni/ae volunteers for making our new electronic system function so well, a change that enabled interviews to be submitted rapidly and in time to assist the admissions committee in its vital work.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/03/an-unprecedented-admissions-year/[/url]”>http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/03/an-unprecedented-admissions-year/</a></p>
<p>I’m eager to hear what you guys think, but I’m still of the opinion that Harvard IS profiting off transfer application fees. I DO think the deck is stacked in SOME way, and with only (factoring in athletic transfers) SIX spots available, I think there HAS to be something, some tie, being a legacy or knowing a professor, SOMETHING that gets those six applicants over the top, meaning the majority don’t really stand a chance. Or perhaps, the majority only stand A CHANCE of being waitlisted. And even a great deal of applicants that DO have an “in” can’t possibly all make it, not with only six spots available, so how would it be a reach to assume that the six that DO have something special on their side that Harvard isn’t telling us? Again, could be wrong, that’s just where my head is, currently…</p>
<p>Also, from someone who has spent an unfortunate amount of time raising children while being homeless and obtaining an undergrad education, I can say that it IS possible to do vounteer work and that sort of thing while being extremely poor yourself, but it is really difficult. I have done a TON of volunteer work; it’s very important to me, but when you’re spending hours trying to figure out a place to take your kids and keep them warm, volunteering to help others certainly becomes a MUCH, MUCH lower priority.
Still, a couple of years ago I organized a huge fundraiser to acquire clothes for needy kids in the public school system where I live; winter was in full-swing and there were plenty of kids with no coats, gloves, scarves, etc. The fundraiser was a huge success and we ended up providing full winter apparel for over 100 kids in our area…but ironically, I was secretly lined up outside the local Crosslines center that same week, trying to get my own kids some coats. Some people find that ridiculous, and it really is, but just because you need help yourself, that doesn’t mean you can’t still pool resources, combine efforts, rally a team of people who CAN help others, and make a real difference. All you need is that desire and you can make changes, even if you’re in need as well. Sometimes I think it was all the work I did to help others even while we were homeless that earned me the privilege of finally finding an affordable, stable home for my family; getting the help WE needed. But I’m a karma freak, so think what you want. ;)</p>
<p>An essay on the life cycle of a file folder would probably bore everyone to tears; suffice it to say that though I have no specific knowledge of the inner workings of this particular office, I stand by my belief that the total costs of such a program universally exceed the revenue from application fees.</p>
<p>Temporary workers are hired through outside agencies during the height of the admissions period. I was one such temporary worker for about a year and a half, and it was in that capacity that I worked in the aforementioned graduate admissions office. And despite the fact that the other people in the office are there year-round, it’s not accurate to say that the time they spend on a particular program during a particular portion of the year (and the hourly wage they’re earning for this time) can just be disregarded in determining the cost of the program. (It is, however, an excellent way to give your budget manager heart palpitations.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I hope this isn’t true. </p>
<p>It would be sad if the top university in the world wasted half of its transfer spots for athletes who compete in sports that no one cares about.</p>
<p>@Chasethecarrot, I understand that it’s possible. But, do you really think H committee saw your “clothes drive” as big of an achievement as one of the admitted student’s 3 year old non-profit that’s apparently “very successful?” </p>
<p>I get that it’s possible to volunteer but for people like us, volunteering is all we can do. We can want to do big things just like everyone else, and we may even be more capable of achieving those big goals, but we can’t do much more than volunteer and/or hold officer roles while dealing with whatever it is we’re dealing with. Then, when they see our application, they say, “aww he/she overcame challenges and did some ECs. How cute? But that doesn’t tell us that they’ll grow up to be superstars because, when compared to this kid who ALREADY has a 3 year old ‘non-profit,’ their EC accomplishments cannot definitively tell us anything. If we give them this opportunity and they are able to give all their time and effort, we cannot conclude that they WILL do great things but we can conclude that the student with 3 year old non-profit will do it because he/she already did it before. All we can conclude for the less fortunate student is that they are good at overcoming obstacles.” With 6 spots available, there were too many “non-profit” applicants that knocked us out.</p>
<p>I’m guessing you skipped the student motherhood and homelessness part? I think overcoming those obstacles a huge success in and of itself, let alone giving to others in that context. There’s no formula for admissions that’s as simple as plugging in X time spent and Y amount raised.</p>
<p>one of their lw coxswains quit apprently and they recruited one from penn since no one had their 3v. </p>
<p>athletic transfers fill HUGE gaps in sports such as lax/crew if someone (a superstar etc) ends up getting injured/quitting/etc</p>
<p>also harvard would rather see its average sat score drop by 200 rather than not pound yale in football or HY regatta</p>
<p>Just to be clear- are we talking about the same thing here? I’m not in any way saying that the cost of the admissions process to a university is exceeded by application fees. The admissions process DOES include recruitment, mailings of all kinds, salaries for employees, etc. I’m talking about the transfer admissions process, and specifically at Harvard. It seems like their alumni do a decent amount of volunteer work (interviews, phone calls, and so on), for free, there are no recruitment or mailing costs, and I would guess the majority of the employees are there anyway. What I’m saying is, cost wise, it seems almost like an afterthought, or an exercise in recycling (with materials and labor). So maybe it is a little bonus for Harvard; a chance to recoup some fraction of the freshman admissions cost losses.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Just spitballin’…</p>
<p>Also, think about the fact that the admissions committee meets in May for transfer applicants. It took them ONE WEEK to make their decisions. On thousands of applications. Does that really add up to you guys? Even if everyone working on those admissions committees were outside hires, temps of some sort (which is impossible; they HAVE to be regular, higher-ups), there’s no way those wage costs would come anywhere near the transfer app fees. And if they are regular, salaried employees, the extra hours they spent there wouldn’t matter, because…they’re salaried employees.</p>
<p>Sure, the regional adcoms (at least, I hope) must have met prior to May to make their recommendations, but again, do we know these people aren’t more alumni volunteers?</p>
<p>I’d really like to know how it works…and honestly, no matter what, I don’t see how the “final” adcoms made all of those decisions in a week. Even with recommendations from the regional so-and-so’s, it just seems like a great deal of those apps HAD to have been glossed over, in some way. For one thing, as someone else on here mentioned, they didn’t even offer interviews to a ton of super-qualified applicants-- so what’s the REAL algorithm, Harvard? I just feel like there has to be some hidden criteria they’re seeking. </p>
<p>I had more to say but I deleted it…don’t want to step over a line and lose my CC account…hopefully I haven’t already…</p>
<p>btw sorry, just realized more conversation has taken place, lol. I’ll check that out in a minute. I typed up what I just posted about two hours ago, but forgot to actually submit it…on we go</p>
<p>LOL. Look at the bright side. We now know that an entity called Harvard exists, and that it hates us all.</p>
<p>@CollegeFreshman- yeah, obviously a clothing drive is not as much of an achievement as founding a non-profit organization. Maybe if you look at it in the context of everything else that was going on in my life, it could actually be seen as MORE of an achievement, lol (I think that’s what BCP is drivin’ at, besides just having my back, of course, because BCP is awesome and we have a secret pact to go to blows with others, if necessary, in the name of defending each other’s honor 
), and maybe if I would have divulged that information to schools such as Harvard, my application could have made more of an impact; but as you may have gathered from my other posts, I’m really wondering if it would have mattered- of course, that’s just speculation…</p>
<p>In any case, I think if it’s possible to volunteer, it’s possible to start something like a not-for-profit org.; I spent hours and hours calling potential donors to sponsor a scholarship fund for low-income GED recipients so they could start college, and that was successful as well (and on-going today). I didn’t think to put “founder of a scholarship organization” on my app, lol, in fact I didn’t mention a word about it on the stupid Common App, but my point is that “founding” an organization doesn’t necessarily mean you have to live and breathe it, you just have to organize it and find others to help you. That certainly doesn’t make it easy, but it also isn’t impossible for people like us. </p>
<p>But let me reiterate- if you’re working and doing homework every waking hour, or as I was, trying to find somewhere for your kids to sleep, ALL of that stuff becomes low or non-existent priority. Really the only reason I did most of those things was because I was a scholarship recipient for the Student Ambassador program at my school, which required five hours a week working in Student Services. Most of that time we weren’t doing anything, so sometimes I worked on homework and sometimes I busted out a phone book and called donors (I dealt with my personal life when I left campus, because I felt it was inappropriate to use my paid scholarship time for personal matters, and I had zero desire to have my coworkers and classmates overhear me begging someone for a place to stay, because I was deeply ashamed of my situation). </p>
<p>To recap: I’ve lost my point somewhere in here and I’m tired. Ta-da! I don’t know, take what you will from that, and don’t forget to consider the daffodil.</p>
<p>BCP- as always, I adore your input in every way. BUT- we don’t KNOW that Harvard exists…
(although it does hate us all)</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>On a totally unrelated note, I would like to say that I understand approximately eleven words out of McFuggie’s last 2 posts…</p>
<p>Also I can’t see “lol” without seeing a drowning person…thanks to whoever is responsible for that ;)</p>
<p>That just made laughing out loud a lot less enjoyable. 
I hope you don’t mind my fb post.</p>
<p>
oh god</p>
<p>cannot unsee</p>
<p>haha sorry, guys. ;)</p>
<p>@BCP- I had to go check FB to see what you were talking about…at first I assumed you meant the dancing carrot pic…I thought, “why would I mind that?” 
I haven’t read it yet, but I don’t mind anything you have to share; no worries. I’ll check the link tomorrow- I have one load of laundry yet to go before I can enjoy my precious three hours of sleep!</p>