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<p>which activities were they forced to take part in?</p>
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<p>The Ohio State band did not force anyone to march in their underwear. Perhaps you did not read the report.</p>
<p>Are you saying no one in the Michigan Band has a nickname? No one in the Michigan Band does sexual things on the bus? No one has a few beers and says “hey rookie, do X!!!”</p>
<p>This stuff is way more common than most people on this thread seem to care to realize. Just like fraternity culture. Doesn’t mean it is ok, but to act like Ohio State is the only band that does things like this is completely ridiculous. People like to turn a blind eye to the fraternity and sorority culture, so maybe they are happy to turn a blind eye to this too… until it comes out in the news, and then everyone wants to pretend to be outraged.</p>
<p>I have pretty close ties to the marching arts. I marched DCI with people from all over the country that were in their college bands.</p>
<p>AGAIN: there is some stuff in the report that is bad. But it is not limited to one school. Just like only one school is not paying people to write papers for their athletes. People also pretend to be outraged about this but don’t actually care.</p>
<p>Y’know what? I don’t care if the Michigan band does the same thing. We know that the Ohio State band does it. We know that it’s both illegal and against Ohio State rules. Therefore, we can start with Ohio State. If later we discover that other bands do the same thing, then their bandleaders should be fired too.</p>
<p>I didn’t know this type thing existed until the Florida A&M drum major was killed by hazing (think he was beaten on the bus). I asked my son who was about to start in the Auburn Marching Band to let me know if he experiences or sees or hears of any type of hazing and again after the OSU issue this week - he said it does not happen in the AU Marching Band. Each section may have their own traditions but he has not seen or heard of anything that would be remotely considered hazing. </p>
<p>^^^Soccerguy he’s at the GA Dome in Atlanta now with his AU bandmates watching the DCI Southern Regionals - there is great camaraderie among band fellows.</p>
<p>CF… don’t you think the problem is bigger than the Band Director?</p>
<p>This is like the VA “scandal”… everyone got outraged and they fired one person. Will that fix things? no. What will OSU do to ACTUALLY solve the problem?</p>
<p>threeofthree: that’s awesome! I will be watching some through a computer subscription, but it’s no where near as good as being there live.</p>
<p>One thing I would say, is that I bet if you polled the OSU band kids, a bunch of them (won’t guess the percentage, but probably substantial) would say there is no hazing in their band also. I think many people that do this don’t process that they are doing something wrong.</p>
<p>I do think the problem is bigger than the band director, but one has to start somewhere. </p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Likely…because if it only extended to the band director, there would have long been a fear that there would be internal repercussions. There doesnt seem to have been that fear.</p>
<p>Ohio State has a new President. Maybe the new broom is sweeping out the trash.</p>
<p>I am pleased that so many are shocked by this. After the incidents at FAMU not that long ago, involving their marching band, and related articles and posts, I had gotten the impression that the hazing culture was fairly common in the big U bands etc. I had hoped I was wrong in that impression.</p>
<p>I would like to hear from some of the band members about how they feel about this. Sometimes I wonder if we are doing our young adults a disservice by fixing all of their challenging/offensive situations for them. They are adults, and they should know they have the power to say no to silly situations. If the band members themselves have never spoken up about this (a mom did it), it must “say” something about how traumatizing it actually was, or wasn’t.</p>
<p>“Silly” is not the word I would use to describe a young woman in the band asked to sit on her younger brother’s lap and simulate an orgasm. “Stomach-turning” or “loathsome” would, I think, fit the situation better.</p>
<p>Silly is also not what I would call having everyone come naked or in underwear to evening band practices. That is wrong, especially for the females. Boxer shorts are more of a grey area, but having women wear bras & panties or less seems totally outrageous for a school event.</p>
<p>Ok - I’m not condoning all the behaviour. But why is running around in bra and panties any different from running around in a bikini? And if the girls knew that they were going to do this, why couldn’t they just wear a bikini under their clothes. If they went out to purchase new “cute” undies from Victoria Secret - it sounds like they kinda wanted to do this. Witnesses said that some people wore pajamas or swim suits. So, this was absolutely voluntary, IMO. </p>
<p>I also think that this was a helicopter parent going too far. If the students were bothered by the behaviour, they should have changed it. Why was it up to a parent to complain? </p>
<p>But, as I’ve said before, it was poor judgement on the band director’s part to actually be present and appear to approve of the behaviour. I was in marching band in HS and college and we got up to some of the same behaviour, especially on trips, but there were no “adults” present. I won’t tell you what my nickname was for 2 years. I didn’t necessarily like it - but I wasn’t scarred for life. And as far as simulated sex - I was more disturbed by the actual sex taking place on the band bus under blankets. There was lots of it going on!!</p>
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<p>first of all, bikinis are usually less see thru. And, not everyone wears a bikini. And, when one wears a bikini, it is by choice, not pressure or anything else. </p>
<p>Panties arent usually as substantial as bikini bottoms. Panties are often extremely thin. </p>
<p>running around in boxers is really no big deal for most guys. My brothers were regularly seen around my home in their boxers and no one batted an eye. If any of us girls walked around in our undies, my parents would have had a fit. </p>
<p>I find it interesting that so many people have no trouble demonizing fraternity hazing, but see band hazing as “voluntary hijinks.”</p>
<p>And someone sees no difference between choosing to wear a bikini on the beach and a requirement to wear bra/panties at a band practice? Really? Even requiring the girls to wear a bikini to band practice would be unacceptable. Would the women defending this be comfortable being required to wear a bikini to work? It would be no big deal?</p>
<p>Just because a young woman might not be “scarred for life” by a sexist nickname doesn’t mean it’s even remotely acceptable. That’s really a low threshold, imo. Would that fly in the workplace? Or anywhere else for that matter? Something has to scar you for life to be considered inappropriate or actionable?</p>
<p>I wonder how the mom who ratted them out feels about the results of her action. Has she been identified?</p>
<p>My oldest son is, as I said upthread, a former member of the Million Dollar Band (University of Alabama). He is also currently on staff for a local HS marching band and they just completed “band camp” and he said the OSU situation was a huge topic of conversation. It has caused a LOT of soul-searching and contemplation of traditions even at this level to be sure there is nothing in there that could lead to abuse. Sometimes those lines get blurred (hmmm, seems like there’s a song out there to that effect?? )</p>
<p>When S1 was in marching band the new band director and the HS administration decided to root out the hazing traditions in band camp. They got together with the section leaders and explained how life was going to change. Together they set out the allowable highjinx and freshman “orientation activities”. It took a few years of sending home offenders but the culture did change. They could have fun, make freshmen do special things, but harrassment and hazing were out. Sexual harrassment has no place in the band or anywhere else on campus, and I would be curious to know if the underwear “tradition” was in place before females were admitted to the band. And by the way the bikini and underwear comparison is irrelevant. Bikinis are public attire, underwear is private. </p>
<p>Technically, I don’t think you can be arrested/cited for wearing women’s underwear in public, unless it reveals certain spots and creases ;). I’ve seen a few women in their bras in public. </p>
<p>Btw, if you look up “undie run” on Wikipedia you will find a list of 13 universities where students hold traditional public “runs” in their underwear. Also, Harvard has it’s traditional “primal scream” run during finals where the students run naked. </p>
<p>I bring these up because some people seem to be unaware that these types of things have gone on at college campuses for years. </p>