@romanigypsyeyes , I think the reason you received retorts back from your first post is that it felt a bit insulting. A lot of “you’s“ in it. That makes people defensive and not willing to listen as much. I know it does me. Your second post was a bit more settled down and that makes it easier to listen to, and not have my the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
I agree with points from both positions. People pretty much speak from their own personal experience, and oftentimes it’s too much of a generalization. But sweeping insulting comments don’t go over with me well. “Ok, Boomer”, “ Snowflake”.
If the point is to be heard, truly heard…I believe the conversations need to be respectful, calm and straightforward.
“I think many people have different expectations regarding college now. I would have never considered going into debt. “ @busdriver11 — I think many parents unthinkingly tried to replicate their own experiences for their children not realizing how much things have changed. In a lot of families, there’s a mindset that you should give your children the best education they can get regardless of cost. 30 years ago, that wasn’t a particularly reckless position to take… now it is ruining people’s lives. I have friends with 3 kids — all of them went to private 4-year residential colleges, as their parents had, even though that wasn’t something they had a lot of resources to pay for. One of the kids was very focused on limiting debt. But I don’t know how long it’s going to take the others to pay off what they owe.
Gen X - also referred to as TheLatchkey Generation. I’m sure when I was in my 20’s I also whined about “the mess” created by the previous generation. Embraced the angst.
I’ve never seen the cutoff for baby boomer being 1960. I’ve always read it to be 1946-1964. By your definition, I would not be a Baby Boomer, and I’ve never once thought of myself as a Gen X-er.
Not that it matters terribly much. I’m not really into stereotyping people based on the year of their birth. My kids are Millennials and they don’t match the typical characterizations either.
I think Romani has made some good points about the difficulties being faced by younger generations that have been inflicted upon them through no fault of their own.
Not much new here at all, is there? Every generation thinks the generation that gave birth to them screwed things up royally, and that the generation that followed them is a bunch of whiny entitled twits. In general. Boomers haven’t always been respectful to the “Greatest Generation” after all.
But that’s generalizing. As individuals, we respect or disdain each other based on individual actions, not year of birth. There are whiny entitled twits of all ages. And accomplished inspirational leaders of all ages. Greta Thunberg falls in the first category for me, the latter category for others.
A lot of those Boomers (older than I am, because I’m one of the youngest in the group) fought hard in the 60s and 70s for the rights of women and minorities - they were furious at the previous generation for their mistreatment of the groups. Thanks to them, I was free to study structural engineering. I don’t think my dad had a single female classmate in his engineering classes.
Interjecting some facts here, which to me addresses the sentiment of “I attended a cheap school 30 years ago because I was less entitled than you.” And also, “You have the same opportunities we did”.
Also wealth has increasingly concentrated in the top 1%. Since 1995, the share of wealth held by the middle class has declined while the top 1% has increased. During the Boomer’s peak earning years, the middle class owned more wealth than the 1%. But that has flipped with the 1% now owning significantly more wealth than the middle class. That directly affects parents’ ability to help their kids pay for skyrocketing college costs, provide for their own retirement, and pass wealth down to their kids. I also view this increasing wealth disparity as a serious structural problem for the US. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/06/25/six-facts-about-wealth-in-the-united-states/
Putting aside climate change, pollution, and all the rest, can you really blame the younger generation for complaining about these issues and their effects - and then getting frustrated when they get dismissed by the older generation?
^But I specifically remember my FIL saying to me in the early 90s, “I really worry about kids in your generation. I don’t know how you’re going to make it.” I don’t think DH and I are the only ones our age who have done worse than our parents. I think it’s fairly common, actually.
While community college appears looked down upon by the forum demographic (high SES, sometimes living in states with underfunded community colleges with high tuition and limited transfer-prep offerings), many students still get their start in community college. What the forum demographic bubble observes is not necessarily representative of the US as a whole.
I agree that the millennial bashing is misplaced. But so is the Boomer bashing. I also think it is not that prevalent. It was the boomers that fought for the environmental controls we have (the EPA was established in 1970). Yes our lifestyles and those of the gen xers and millennials have contributed to climate change. Many of us boomers have continued to fight for the environment and do not dismiss those concerns. And unfortunately, there are many 20-somethings that really don’t seem to care or take action to change things.
OTOH, my kids had a much more interesting and advantaged childhood than I did., getting to travel, do ECs of their choice, and go to camps. They still have a parental financial backstop to some extent, although they are all independent for the most part. Two of the three will likely not have the same standard of living due to their own choices and to wage stagnation and the high cost of living. I had college loans and my DH had both undergrad and grad loans. And our kids that chose to not attend our state U also have the minimum loans.
I worry about the cost of housing and health care and the impact of climate change on our kids. I am hopeful, however, that millennials and Gen Z engineers will come up with ways to combat these problems and save our planet. All generations have to wake up and work together to solve these problems. Stereotyping and blame do nothing to change things.
Part of the boomer dissatisfaction is that many want to live in areas that are incredibly expensive- like LA/SF. That’s a choice, and, yes, there are fun jobs, but take a look at some other places and you would be surprised at the affordability. Also, it’s nice that there are those 3 jobs available for you to work! That was not always the case.
https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa mentions two people important in the origin of the EPA, Rachel Carson (born 1907) and Richard Nixon (born 1913); they were members of the “greatest generation” (the “boomers” parents).
In 1970, the oldest “boomers” were 24, the youngest were 6, with the middle being 15. It was likely that “greatest generation” and “silent generation” parents’ concern for their “boomer” and (early) “generation X” kids (and themselves) was more important in the political arena that resulted in the creation of the EPA. “Boomers” were largely not in positions of political power in 1970 compared to the “greatest generation” and “silent generation”. Also, many older “boomers” in 1970 had their political attention on the possibility of being drafted for a war that they opposed.
I agree with the poster’s comment about “looking beyond your bubble”. My bubble was that everyone went to community college, state school, or worked and didn’t go to college at all. The few people that went elsewhere to college were the rich kids, you know, the people who lived in four bedroom houses. Ivy league, top 20, what’s that? Going to a school because it’s a “good” option, as opposed to the option you could take a bus to? Unfathomable.
My kids bubble (and my bubble now) is that everyone is going to the best school they can possibly get into. A few have gone to our state school, which is now a fantastic university. They are going there not because it’s the only option, but because it is now a great option. Everyone is trying to get their dream college experience, and feeling let down if they can’t. It’s funny how you get sucked into all this. But if I was replicating experiences for my kids, I would have handed them a check for the first quarter of community college, and said, “Go for it!” You must have come from a very wealthy home to have that experience from your parents, @CIEE83.
Are the boomers dissatisfied? I didn’t get that impression (not on this thread, i could have missed it). I got the vibe “Oh i worked hard too at your age but look at me now!”.
Come to think about it, complaining is our national pastime these days, from all generations. But there are something to be said about inheriting issues created by previous generations. I don’t mind taking the responsibility (GenX here).
^^^ I’m SO sorry! I meant the “millenial” dissatisfaction and now I can’t edit it. I agree that the boomers I know, including myself, are pretty satisfied. Hey- I’m in my 60s and have had ups and downs, but generally things have been good. I find at my reunions and gatherings with past high school and college classmates, people have mainly moved on from the "keeping up with the Jones’ " thing.
I blame credit cards. It’s SO easy for my millennial kids to go out to eat and stick it on plastic, whether credit or debit. My daughter and I share a checking account and I see all the $5, $10, $20 charges to Panera, Starbucks, etc., etc. I didn’t spend like that at her age because I used cash. When she says she’s broke, I’m not surprised.
