Ole Miss football team "earned the highest team GPA (2.57) in recorded history"

<p>“Since there are not many (any?) schools with 100% graduation rates, it appears that students “not capable of doing college-level work” do slip through the admissions gates of even the most selective schools”</p>

<p>Well, duh, but those are few and far between. It’s pretty obvious that the reason that the graduation rates at highly selective schools aren’t 100% is due to either unanticipated financial issues or other serious life issues (such as physical or mental illness, or personal tragedy such as loss of a family member causing them to take time off). Let’s not even remotely pretend that there is any significant number of students at highly selective schools who are flunking out because they just weren’t suited for college work at all. </p>

<p>Successful athletes from Ole Miss - Eli Manning, Archie Manning, Michael Ohre…they don’t seem to be doing a bad job in life. There are dozens of others, from Olympians to coaches.</p>

<p>Ibad96 will learn.</p>

<p>@twoinanddone‌ I mentioned those guys lol. And Stetson is even a safety for me (it’s very small and unknown).</p>

<p>Ibad96 said: “okay, apologies about the Fiske Guide. But Faulkner and Grisham are the only two alumni who are/were actually capable of making a decent impact on the world in any aspect.”</p>

<p>You can add Jim Barksdale to the list, you know, the Netscape guy, who sold his company to AOL. He’s worth about $600 million, and gave the money to found the Ole Miss honors college. He has funded a lot of education initiatives in Mississippi. He’s still active in business, and a few years ago created a dedicated fiber-optic cable from Chicago to New York that cut the data transmission time by a fraction of a second. Stock and currency traders paid a hefty premium for this advantage.</p>

<p>I invite you to look a list of notable Ole Miss alumni, which you can find on Wikipedia by doing an Internet search, since I’m not supposed to post links.</p>

<p>Willie Morris didn’t attend Ole Miss, but he was the writer in residence for many years. I never had him for a class, but I treasure the hours we spent talking together. Morris urged fellow writer Barry Hannah to accept a young student into his graduate-level writing course. That student’s name was Donna Tartt. She just won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction for The Goldfinch.</p>

<p>Shepard Smith was a classmate of mine, and we had a number of classes together. He’s done okay. A lot of my friends have done just fine in life. You’ve probably never heard of Ole Miss grad Mike Moore, but as attorney general he initiated the tobacco lawsuit in which I think every state eventually joined. Unless you smoke you probably think this is a good thing.</p>

<p>A fraternity brother and roommate of mine is now a cancer researcher. He’s not famous, but if you Google his name you will find he’s slogging along with various studies on the effectiveness of various drugs. I can list any number of friends who are doing just great in life. A few are “stars,” but it’s okay to just have a good life, make a decent living, and raise a family. That’s what they are doing.</p>

<p>As for the grade-point-average mentioned in the article, that is an absolutely GREAT grade-point average. Grades at Ole Miss traditionally have not been as inflated as at other schools. For many years the law school actually sent out a “grade inflation letter” explaining that grades at Ole Miss were about seven or eight tenths of a point below those of most law schools (Teachers graded on a true bell curve. There would frequently be only one A). I remember in my undergraduate accounting class one semester there were 53 students and I was one of the lucky three to make an “A.” It’s not that the students weren’t good, the grading was just harder.</p>

<p>As a school, by court order admission standards have to be low, and in fact many schools admit athletes based on the NCAA minimum. Many of these high-risk students don’t last very long, but they are given the chance. Ole Miss has responded to the challenge of being forced to have relatively low admission standards by creating a top-notch honors college (average ACT, almost 32), The Lott Leadership Institution and the Croft Institute, all of which cater to top students. The Accounting school is considered one of the best in the nation, both at the undergraduate and graduate level. Anyone wanting a good education from Ole Miss can get it, and it’s still small enough that students can talk to their professors. Hopefully the school will not grow any more; it’s big enough.</p>

<p>Many football players are marginal scholars. Many would not attend college were it not for the chance to play football. One of the first things Hugh Freeze did was to hire people to sit in the entrance of all of the major academic buildings and take roll of whether or not the football players attended class. He has elevated the importance of academic performance for the team, and I salute him.</p>

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<p>This is being done at a number of univs. Bama tracks their athletes’ class attendance and they get weekly grade reports. These schools have tutoring centers that offer further assistance, if needed. When Bama plays on Jan 1st, there will be at least 15 players who already have their bachelors degrees and at least 6 that already have their grad degrees.</p>

<p>I agree with the sentiment that many of these football players wouldn’t have even gone to college if it weren’t for football. If they at least emerge with a bachelors degree in something that isn’t Basket-Weaving, then we should all be happy about that. At Bama, there seems to be a good number of Marketing, Sports Mgmt, Communications, and Environmental Science majors…maybe not the toughest majors, but respectable. There is at least one engineering major…that’s a tough gig paired with football.</p>

<p>

It depends on what your definition of ‘much’ is. I saw an article a few years back where Cal was 2.93 and I believe it has sunk lower than that.</p>

<p>^^
I doubt it’s even that high. Cal has had problems in the past with football players having to leave the program because of grades. Because of that, by 2017, 80% of recruits must have at least a 3.0 high school GPA. </p>

<p>That figure may have been for all athletes. There are sports that seem to have much higher GPAs…gymnastics, tennis, golf…are a few. </p>

<p>That said, as football plays/schemes become more complicated, decent intelligence is needed. </p>

<p>Most athletic departments require the students to attend study hours of 8-10 hours a week, at least until first grades are posted and a certain gpa is established. My daughter is shooting for a 3.5 so she doesn’t have to go anymore. Right now she has to check in for 8 hours per week. I think if she gets a 3.5 she doesn’t have to go at all, and if it is a 3.2 she gets reduced hours.</p>

<p>Her coach checks up on them all the time. One of the freshmen didn’t check in for one of the required activities in the freshman orientation class (they have to swipe for all kinds of things like concerts, sports, student meetings) and the entire team had to do the penance.</p>

<p>When student athletes “earn” passing grades, it is a good thing. Grades should not be given but earned. Good for Ole Miss for making improvements. </p>

<p>For those who are curious (stepping back from the Ole Miss issue), here are the top 50 Division I schools for football under the NCAA’s APR (academic progress – rate at which players graduate in a timely fashion, are not on academic probation, etc) for the most recent year data is available, 2012-2013:</p>

<p>Ranking (out of 245 schools); School Name; 2012-2013 APR; 2011-2012 APR; Change between 2011-2013
Perfect score = 1000</p>

<p>1 Davidson College 996 996 0<br>
2 University of Dayton 995 992 3<br>
3 Dartmouth College 993 989 4<br>
4 Duke University 992 989 3<br>
5 Yale University 991 993 -2<br>
6 Northwestern University 991 996 -5<br>
7 University of Wisconsin, Madison 989 985 4<br>
8 University of Pennsylvania 989 990 -1<br>
9 Utah State University 988 967 21<br>
10 Boise State University 988 993 -5<br>
11 Cornell University 987 987 0<br>
12 Wofford College 985 982 3<br>
13 Brown University 985 991 -6<br>
14 Stanford University 984 978 6<br>
15 Georgia Institute of Technology 983 983 0<br>
16 Clemson University 983 985 -2<br>
17 Columbia University-Barnard College 983 987 -4<br>
18 Bryant University 982 978 4<br>
19 Boston College 981 982 -1<br>
20 Princeton University 981 986 -5<br>
21 University of South Carolina, Columbia 980 966 14<br>
22 University of Nebraska, Lincoln 980 972 8<br>
23 Georgetown University 980 977 3<br>
24 Rutgers, State Univ of New Jersey, New Brunswick 980 978 2<br>
25 University of Missouri, Columbia 980 982 -2<br>
26 Harvard University 980 983 -3<br>
27 University of California, Los Angeles 979 966 13<br>
28 Elon University 978 972 6<br>
29 University of Central Florida 978 975 3<br>
30 Lafayette College 978 986 -8<br>
31 Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University 977 970 7<br>
32 Samford University 977 977 0<br>
33 University of New Hampshire 977 978 -1<br>
34 U.S. Military Academy 976 971 5<br>
35 U.S. Air Force Academy 976 974 2<br>
36 University of Michigan 975 951 24<br>
37 University of Alabama 975 978 -3<br>
38 Rice University 975 979 -4<br>
39 University of Toledo 974 963 11<br>
40 Mississippi State University 974 967 7<br>
41 Vanderbilt University 974 973 1<br>
42 University of South Florida 973 970 3<br>
43 Lehigh University 973 973 0<br>
44 Indiana University, Bloomington 972 963 9<br>
45 University of California, Davis 972 970 2<br>
46 Middle Tennessee State University 972 972 0<br>
47 University of Notre Dame 972 973 -1<br>
48 Fordham University 972 976 -4<br>
49 University of Miami (Florida) 972 977 -5<br>
50 The Ohio State University 972 982 -10</p>

<p>Here are the bottom 50 (the commentary is whether they were subject to NCAA restrictions due to their low APR; ignore miscellaneous words there!); the College of the Holy Cross has a “data problem” so they are unranked (their APR is ‘null’).</p>

<p>195 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville 935 938 -3<br>
196 University of Tulsa 934 929 5<br>
197 Florida International University 933 930 3<br>
198 University of South Alabama 933 932 1<br>
199 Grambling State University 932 918 14<br>
200 Missouri State University 932 923 9<br>
201 University of Tennessee, Knoxville 932 924 8<br>
202 University at Buffalo, the State University of New York 932 925 7<br>
203 Youngstown State University 932 927 5<br>
204 Southeastern Louisiana University 932 929 3<br>
205 University of Montana 932 930 2<br>
206 University of Akron 932 932 0<br>
207 University of Tennessee at Martin 932 932 0<br>
208 University of Massachusetts, Amherst 932 935 -3<br>
209 Texas Tech University 932 941 -9<br>
210 Jackson State University 931 913 18<br>
211 Northwestern State University 931 919 12<br>
212 Troy University 931 921 10<br>
213 Howard University 931 931 0<br>
214 Sam Houston State University 931 932 -1<br>
215 Jacksonville State University 931 940 -9<br>
216 Stephen F. Austin State University 930 921 9<br>
217 Bethune-Cookman University 930 935 -5<br>
218 University of Nevada 930 942 -12<br>
219 Oklahoma State University 929 926 3 Practice reduction<br>
220 University of Texas at El Paso 928 917 11<br>
221 South Carolina State University 925 912 13<br>
222 Gardner-Webb University 925 932 -7<br>
223 University of Nevada, Las Vegas 925 932 -7 Practice reduction Yes
224 Lamar University 923 922 1<br>
225 Charleston Southern University 922 903 19<br>
226 Morgan State University 918 922 -4<br>
227 Delaware State University 917 901 16<br>
228 Hampton University 917 901 16<br>
229 Saint Francis University (Pennsylvania) 916 924 -8 Practice reduction Yes
230 New Mexico State University 915 916 -1 Practice reduction<br>
231 Alcorn State University 915 919 -4<br>
232 North Carolina Central University 914 932 -18<br>
233 Tennessee State University 910 919 -9<br>
234 Prairie View A&M University 908 907 1 Practice reduction
In-season and out-of-season restrictions Yes
235 North Carolina A&T State University 905 874 31<br>
236 University of Idaho 901 919 -18 Practice reduction Yes
237 Florida A&M University 885 903 -18 Practice reduction Yes
238 University of Arkansas, Pine Bluff 882 907 -25 Practice reduction Yes
239 Norfolk State University 880 864 16<br>
240 Alabama State University 870 874 -4 Practice reduction
In-season and out-of-season restrictions Yes
241 Texas Southern University 861 815 46<br>
242 Savannah State University 846 876 -30 Practice reduction
In-season and out-of-season restrictions Yes
243 Mississippi Valley State University 822 810 12 Practice reduction
In-season and out-of-season restrictions Yes
244 Southern University 482 </p>

<p>34 U.S. Military Academy 976 971 5
35 U.S. Air Force Academy 976 974 2
36 University of Michigan 975 951 24
37 University of Alabama 975 978 -3 <<<=== Roll Tide!!!
38 Rice University 975 979 -4
39 University of Toledo 974 963 11
40 Mississippi State University 974 967 7
41 Vanderbilt University 974 973 1</p>

<p>As mentioned above, as football plays/schemes become more sophisticated, coaches need intelligent players. </p>

<p>It’s interesting to see that at Stanford, students going into sophomore year have to have at least a 1.8 GPA, going into junior year, it needs to be 1.9 GPA, and as a senior, it’s 2.0. I would expect a school like Stanford to have higher standards than that. Speaks volumes about collegiate athletics across the board. Not just Ole Miss.</p>

<p>“I agree with the sentiment that many of these football players wouldn’t have even gone to college if it weren’t for football. If they at least emerge with a bachelors degree in something that isn’t Basket-Weaving, then we should all be happy about that.”</p>

<p>It’s good for them. I kind of wish the full rides could go to students who want to go to college for academic reasons, though.</p>

<p>Also, as long as I’m dreaming, I’d like a pony.</p>

<p>"Most athletic departments require the students to attend study hours of 8-10 hours a week, at least until first grades are posted and a certain gpa is established. "</p>

<p>This is not aimed at your daughter, but using this as a jumping off point.</p>

<p>Isn’t it kind of pathetic that they are admitting students who don’t even have the self-motivation and / or DESIRE to study for 8 - 10 hours a week, so they have to be “forced” to do so?</p>

<p>Nope. I think many freshmen arrive without any idea how to study, that you have to sit your ass in a chair from the first week of school, establish a schedule which includes working out, practices, eating, and studying. Many are away from home for the first time and want to have FUN. They think they are studying with the music turned up and phones buzzing away and playing games on their computers while a book is open, but they aren’t making progress. I think many college students, including athletes, THINK they are studying many more than 10 hours a week (maybe they are) but they aren’t using their time wisely.</p>

<p>My daughter was used to a very rigid schedule that she established in high school for herself. She went to work out at the gym on her own, would sit and study at the kitchen table, never missed school or practice. She was one of the only kids who did this. Her friends would call and want to go get frozen yogurt or french fries (‘Come, it will only take 15 minutes. Pleezze’), but she would sit and study. At college, her teammates/roommates wanted to have fun and didn’t have the same work habits that DD has. They would have ‘studied’ in their suite all semester with the tv on and loud music playing if they hadn’t been required to go to study tables.</p>

<p>The payoff is that DD no longer has to go to study tables because she made the grades this first semester. I bet she still goes to them at least twice a week this spring. She likes the routine, the habit of going to the library and studying in a block of time. She claimed an entire table in the library for herself last semester and said she liked spreading out, having her computer and tablet, all her books spread out. </p>

<p>I would have benefited from study tables when I first started college. High school didn’t require much studying for me, so I had no idea how to organize my time throughout the semester; I was a crammer. Athletes don’t have time for that.</p>

<p>@Pizzagirl - we can agree to disagree. The graduation rate for athletes is 100%. No professor is slacking up on them. I know for a fact that coaches have to work around schedules and course responsibilities, unlike schools in major sports conferences. Also why any Ivy League football team would get pummeled by most ranked college programs, even Harvard who was undefeated this year.</p>

<p>Tperry - I’m not sure what we are disagreeing on - can you point me to a post where you think that is happening? </p>

<p>Why would someone “look down” on the deep south? For one, you cannot generalize an entire region of the country as retaining any sort of connective tissue. Second, some of the best public and private institutions of higher learning happen to be in the south – especially public. Is it because of their history? That wouldn’t make any sense - because the United States as a whole has had a very dark, complicated past when it comes to race - and there isn’t this clear cut regional dichotomy at play where the south is susceptible to racism and the north isn’t. Racism, in covert, toxic forms, is alive and well in the north. </p>

<p>I’m from Massachusetts - our flagship, UMass Amherst, couldn’t compare academically or athletically to quite a few southern flagships. (Not to throw shade at the Zoo or anything - many, many bright and talented students go to UMass every year - it is truly an educational gem, but there are many southern schools that can outperform all of New England’s flagships both inside and outside the classroom.)</p>

<p>“Ole Miss admits non-athletes at about the same level of academic qualifications as the NCAA minimum.”</p>

<p>Maybe so, but it doesn’t spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to recruit them and give them full rides and a massive support structure.</p>

<p>@preamble1776‌ let’s see the Southern schools that actually CAN outperform UMASS Amherst academically…
University of Virginia
College of William & Mary
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
Duke University
Wake Forest University
Vanderbilt University
University of Miami
University of Florida
University of Georgia
Tulane University
University of Texas - Austin</p>

<p>Those are the Southern schools I could think of. In case you’re wondering about Clemson, I consider them about equal to each other academically. I also consider UMASS to be equal to, if not better than, Tulane athletically. UMASS could certainly beat W&M athletically as well.</p>