<p>I don’t know that I would consider this wrong, but I definitely would consider it foolish.</p>
<p>Most job applications I’ve filled out ask for the name and location of educational institutions attended.</p>
<p>How exactly do the background checks work? What databases do they check and what exact info comes up? I’m in the dark on this matter.</p>
<p>The simplest is to call the school(s) listed on the resume and ask:</p>
<p>Did [candidate] attend your school between [date1] and [date2] and graduate with a [degree] in [major] and a GPA of [GPA]?</p>
<p>(Or they may want to see transcripts.)</p>
<p>And ask previous employers:</p>
<p>Did [candidate] work at [employer] between [date1] and [date2]?</p>
<p>Of course some employers may try to do additional things like criminal record check, credit check, etc…</p>
<p>They pay firms that do the research, that subscribe to the various databases or resources- or place those calls. I’ve been through many background checks. Sometimes, it’s not to get a very deep level of detail, just enough to verify nothing’s wrong with your public record. Other times, it’s nearly line by line. I totally agree it can include a credit check, depending. You usually sign that all info is accurate and there’s usually fine print somewhere that allows them to dig. I’d be surprised if your current financial job didn’t include some level of checking, to get your position. Certain industries cannot afford to jeopardize client relationships or get into regulatory hassles. They can’t afford to take at face value what you put on the resume and your great interview skills.</p>
<p>Right. But say in this hypothetical scenario they call “University of Michigan”. Would I come up in U of M’s database? Would U of M- Flint have an entirely different database?</p>
<p>If not, I don’t see how the discrepancy would be noticed. Unless someone at U of M feels the need to say, “Yes, he graduated from University of Michigan…but it was the FLINT CAMPUS…and it was ONLINE TOO!”.</p>
<p>Again, HYPOTHETICAL. Just trying to get a good idea of how the background check process actually works in detail.</p>
<p>Life is much less complicated if you just do the right thing. Then you don’t have to even think about background checks. Hypothetically. ;)</p>
<p>Much more expensive too.</p>
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<p>To save Sakky a reply … given reasonably competent people in the process.</p>
<p>I do not know how the process works but I can only imagine two scenarios. First, UM and UM-Flint have separate dBs so you get caught … or they share a dB. However even if they do share dB I can’t imagine the person proving the info would not include the campus info when they answer since that is the answer the question of where you went to school. (Think of the Cal system with 10(?) schools would answering yes they went to one of the Cal schools really make sense). (PS - this whole line of questioning is moot … you keep ignoring the fact that companies ask or the name and location of your school (or are you planning or lying or trying to finesse that answer also).</p>
<p>Let’s try this another way. There are 34.498.739 references to University of Michigan on this site … how many of them do you believe were intended to discuss UM-Flint? The answer is ZERO. UMich means UM-AA … UWisc = U Wisconsin Madison … Cal = Cal Berkeley, etc … and everyone knows that. The only people who possible are calling UM-Flint only UM are UM-Flint folks hoping people will believe they went to UM-AA.</p>
<p>One last thought do you want to work for an employer who finesses answers to get you to work there. Work out facilities at work … sure … then after you start you find out well actually people take sponge baths in one of the sinks. Pay for grad school … sure … well actually, we only pay $100 for one particular course. What would your reaction be … that’s fine; their answers could be considered technically correct; I feel fine about the answers they gave me while interviewing? … or might you feel deceived and might it cause a hit to your trust and commitment to the firm? Guessing you answer to that question … why would be any different going the other direction?</p>
<p>I still haven’t heard a valid enough point of why NOT to do it. The worst case scenario seems to be that they notice the difference and either don’t hire you or fire you. Surely, if you were to be 100% forthcoming and put UM- Flint on the resume, then the top firms in the finance industry wouldn’t call you in for an interview anyway.</p>
<p>It seems that even the 1% chance of getting the job by omitting the campus is still better than the 0% chance you had by including it.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I don’t understand why anyone would feel “guilty” about getting a job because of this omission. If you get the job and you perform well (as well or better as kids from UM- AA) then aren’t you deserving of the job? If you suck and are incompetent because you went to UM- Flint, then won’t you be fired any way? Say the UM- Flint and UM- AA kid both get hired at the same place but the UM-Flint kid is simply better at the job. Do you think the UM- AA kid is more deserving just because he piled on $100k more in student debt? Obviously the more challenging UM- AA MBA program didn’t outweigh the fact that the kid from UM- Flint is better at the job because he self-studied and read books in his free time.</p>
<p>I just fail to believe that this is MORALLY wrong. I agree that it is misrepresentation of yourself, but the only reason why you are “misrepresenting” is to earn yourself a chance that you typically wouldn’t have otherwise.</p>
<p>The resume is about selling yourself; is it not? If you don’t outright lie, then I don’t see the problem.</p>
<p>It isn’t ILLEGAL. It doesn’t HARM anyone. Isn’t a 1% shot better than a 0% shot? Doesn’t business sometimes involve being clever to get ahead?</p>
<p>Why not to do it:
Hmmm, the potential damage could wreck your financial career, leave you blackballed. Hmm, you didn’t lie about lunch, but about your certification for the job. Word gets around. </p>
<p>Why to do it: …?</p>
<p>When it’s okay: in conversation, fine to say, “Yeah, my program was through UMich.” True. Or, “when I was doing my grad studies…” Or, “I decided to stay in that position another year because I was also pursuing my MBA.” True. Don’t mislead about the program. </p>
<p>You are looking at this from one angle only: maybe I can get away with it. We are telling you what a risk it is.</p>
<p>Bottom line: qualifying yourself for moves and moves up in the financial arena requires some good judgment. The repeat questions about maybe getting away withe this and even as a hypothetical, suggest your mind isn’t where it should be, you attention is diverted, you aren’t focused on the best steps and how to manage them, you aren’t doing the tunnel vision thing about getting started in your industry. And, that’s a huge risk, too. </p>
<p>You are either “worthy” or not.</p>
<p>ps. there’s also usually a Q on the app about “ever been fired.” That’s another one not to lie about, especially re background checks.</p>
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<p>Wow. So let me get this straight – it’s perfectly OK to deceive, as long as you think your reason is good enough. Is that your moral code?</p>
<p>Dishonesty is dishonesty. It doesn’t matter whether you think it’s a big deal or not. If you are hiding something which the OTHER person might think is a big deal, then it’s a lie of omission. Which is just as bad as a stated lie. Your intent is to deceive for personal gain. That’s what makes it “MORALLY wrong.”</p>
<p>Character is what you do when no one’s looking.</p>
<p>@LasMa I agree, and it’s exactly this kind of attitude that poisons the business community.</p>
<p>And OP, yes it does harm people - it harms the applicants who have BETTER applications than you.</p>
<p>I’ve read through this thread and one thing I don’t think has been addressed…</p>
<p>How does the OP plan to explain that he was working full time in the tri-state area AND attending an MBA program in Michigan at the same time? Regardless of it being Flint or AA, this is going to scream online degree, is it not? They’ll notice this on review of your resume and you’ll never get called for an interview. At best, you may get called for clarification by an assistant.</p>
<p>BlueIguana…that point is valid, but I’m not actually doing it, so it doesn’t matter. This is hypothetical and it’s interesting to see how mad some people get about “ethics”.</p>
<p>So if you want your car fixed…you would rather have a guy who is a worse mechanic but went to school for automotive repair? He is more qualified on paper, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he is better.</p>
<p>Some of you are so obsessed with “the best degree possible” that you fail to realize that college isn’t the ONLY thing indicative of a person’s ability.</p>
<p>Just because these people have BETTER APPLICATIONS doesn’t mean that they are BETTER EMPLOYEES.</p>
<p>@KnowledgeKick, That’s true but your situation is different than the one we’re discussing. The analogy only makes sense if your car breaks down in a city you’ve never been in before, and you need an auto mechanic. All else being equal (and not being 100% sure of any mechanic’s ability), I’m going to take the mechanic which has gone to school for his job. I might even have to pay him more - because he’s probably going to be a BETTER mechanic. You’re right - not always. But probably.</p>
<p>Degrees != ability, and everyone here knows this. Look at Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc. That is completely irrelevant to this situation.</p>
<p>Also, “I know that an Online MBA is not ideal, but I’m just trying to find the most cost-effective option that looks best on a resume.” You’re the one asking for our opinions about whether this is unethical or not. Claiming that the situation is hypothetical and calling us mad is immature and a weasel’s move to get out of a losing argument.</p>
<p>I don’t feel that I’m losing the argument because no one has managed to explain how getting even 1 interview based on misleading information is worse than getting 0 interviews based on an online degree from Flint.</p>
<p>"With that said, does everyone really believe that if your MBA isn’t from a top 25 program then it isn’t worth getting whatsoever?!</p>
<p>What is helpful is an MBA from a university respected in the locale you expect to work. It certainly doesn’t need to be a top 25. Now the more highly respected the better, but for some positions, an MBA from a respected university will separate you from other applicants or least won’t put you at a disadvantage from the legions that do have an MBA. </p>
<p>That said, the way to go is to work FT and find an employer that will help fund your MBA through a PT MBA program over like a three year period.</p>
<p>BTW - absolutely do not think of doing this U of Michigan, leaving off the Flint thing. It likely will come out and if it does, the employer likely will view it as misleading. You don’t know you’ll get 0 interviews with the Flint designation but you’ll likely get 0 positions without it.</p>
<p>Aside from the many potential penalties (word getting around that you’re misrepresenting yourself on your resume, getting accepted and then fired, missing out on interviews that the -Flint designation may not have disqualified you for), it’s unethical. Game, Set, Match. Why are we even discussing this?</p>
<p>[Unethical</a> Synonyms, Unethical Antonyms | Thesaurus.com](<a href=“UNETHICAL]UNETHICAL Synonyms & Antonyms | Thesaurus.com”>UNETHICAL Synonyms: 41 Synonyms & Antonyms for UNETHICAL | Thesaurus.com)</p>
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<p>A hiring manager who is less school-prestige-obsessed (and may not even care if you have an MBA) may call you in for an interview regardless of UM-AA, UM-F, or no MBA, but may decide not to hire you after seeing what s/he considers deception (“UM” trying to imply UM-AA when it was really UM-F). Or HR may mark you as ineligible to hire after the check of UM-AA (based on “UM”) reveals that you never attended there.</p>
<p>The other possibility is that if you do get hired, but found out later, if the manager or HR considers this cause for firing, then you may have to explain being fired in subsequent job interviews. Or even if you do not get fired, you may be seen by your manager as untrustworthy and given less desirable work assignments, limiting your career growth.</p>
<p>Yes, plenty of people do “get away” with stretching the ethical envelope. But many others do “get caught” and penalized.</p>
<p>We’re repeating ourselves. OP and a certain other poster need to meet for coffee. </p>
<p>An MBA alone isn’t indicative of a person’s ability. True. Nor is a college degree or, for that matter, a hs diploma. Or, speaking well or paying bills on time. Or whether you come to work reasonably dressed or in your pj’s.</p>
<p>If you were my relative, what would conern me is that, with a “toehold” in a great, competitive, well-paying industry-- you choose to focus on how to shortchange the next level of professional education in that field. You want to (hypothetically) discuss if one can get around the low quality of an online program by pretending “one” went to a more rigorous program, Scary. </p>
<p>You can go to Harvard Extension, take a few classes and, I suppose, convince a few people (usally grandmas and great aunts,) you studied business at Harvard.</p>
<p>But, really, OP, if don’t you have the hunger to do this right, you’re missing a key skill. Hypothetical is a waste of time when it’s this low level.</p>
<p>Something is very off here. Maybe this discussion is for a summer school paper in ethics-- common reactions to awareness of a possible scam.</p>