One applicant's story - Cornell University ED

Parents Forum
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<p>bovertine,</p>

<p>You are right, we are inferring that her gpa isn’t, for instance, an unweighted 3.9. Based on how people usually describe their accomplishments on CC, for example, I’d assume that if she had gotten just one “B”, she would have said that. If she were first or second in her class, she would have said that, too. She also described her grades as “solid,” which doesn’t sound like “excellent.” I’m assuming that the lack of such info doesn’t reflect modesty because a really modest person wouldn’t be publishing such an article in Cornell’s alum magazine. </p>

<p>Similarly, I’m also guessing that she either isn’t taking a particularly rigorous curriculum compared to the many APs that top students in top high schools take or she didn’t do that well on her AP exams because she only mentioned one AP grade: a 4 on AP chemistry.</p>

<p>She doesn’t come across as being Ivy bright. This is one example: “After cramming with prep classes, I earned a 1910 out of 2400 on the SAT.” That’s not a score to brag about or even mention if one is an Ivy legacy who has taken prep classes and hopes to go to an Ivy.</p>

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<p>^^^^
An awful lot of this is assumption. I would think if you were going to critique somebody on a public forum it would be based on facts. But that’s just me.</p>

<p>If you were to say that her SAT scores are a little lower than the 25% on the CDS, that would be a fact, and obviously not something in her favor.</p>

<p>Edit-
As an aside, if someone writing an article for a magazine listed their stats like they do here on CC, I don’t think it would flow very well, and would probably make for a fairly “clunky” read.</p>

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<p>I agree that a lot is assumption. I am shaking my head at why the young woman would have put herself out like she did, and why her mother would post letting everyone know that her daughter was rejected.</p>

<p>To me, the article has a disturbing undercurrent of unearned privilege and I suspect that the writer and her mom assumed that she would be accepted due to connections. Why did the student even bothering to take a Cornell tour since she was so familiar with the campus? Why mention that her great aunt edited the alum magazine? </p>

<p>I can see publishing such an article about oneself in an alum magazine – after being admitted, but not beforehand. Doing so before getting one’s admissions decision seems like acting like admissions would not be so bold as to send a rejection. Anyone with a smidgen of concern that they wouldn’t be admitted would be highly unlikely to publish such an article. Rejection would be too public.</p>

<p>And check this out:</p>

<p>“We’ve been building relationships with our teachers and counselors, bosses and advisers, and now it’s time to bake them brownies and ask for letters of recommendation.”</p>

<p>Bake brownies in order to ask for a letter of recc? “Building relationships” -indicates a savvy that typically only the most coached and sophisticated high school students do.</p>

<p>I also thought that the comments that her mother wrote seemed to be written in a style suspiciously similar to the one her D used in the essay. And what kind of parent would write that after their kid was rejected? I can understand a parent’s being hurt and disappointed, but why announce to the world that their kid got an ED rejection? The mom’s post, too, seemed to ooze feelings of entitlement due to unearned privilege.</p>

<p>“Color me red” ended up being an embarassing title for the article. I hope she didn’t write that title.</p>

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<p>Agree with Northstarmom about her assumptions, whether they eventually are truth or not. The fact of the matter is that this girl wasn’t all that qualified for Cornell. In fact, I know people more qualified than her who were rejected from state schools. I am guessing based on how she described her stats that she had a GPA of ~3.5UW/4.0W with 600s on her SAT2 and of course a 1910 on her SAT1. </p>

<p>She definitely came off as a bit entitled and assuming, but who wouldn’t be in her position? She basically has “admitted” written all over her as long as she can meet the Cornell averages. If she cant attain the numbers, she shouldn’t be writing an article in the alumni magazine imo.</p>

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<p>At least here everyone is admitting a lot of this is assumption. And it may be true for all I know.</p>

<p>I guess this is just a pet peeve of mine. It’s really sort of insignificant I guess. But this is something like the third or fourth time somebody has posted an article similar to this, with a really vague skeleton of statistics, and by the third or fourth post everyone is acting like they know the subject’s GPA down to the fifith decimal point (I exaggerate). </p>

<p>In one instance, somebody posted an article that listed the average GPA of a group of kids, and out of that, the posters were writing posts that assumed this average necessarily applied to one specific kid in the group. It took me four or five posts to even get people to understand why I questioned that generalization.</p>

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<p>We’re inferring that her average was nowhere near 4.0 because students with near-4.0 averages do not say “I’ve never earned a final grade lower than a B.” They say things like “I have only had two Bs as final grades” or “I’ve never earned a final grade lower than an A, except in French.” </p>

<p>I’m wondering why there is so much focus on ECs in this thread. I don’t see anything wrong with this girl’s ECs, in terms of applying to a Cornell-level college (i.e., one in the lower half of the top 20 national universities in terms of competitiveness). This is not Harvard; you don’t have to have extraordinary accomplishments outside of academics. You just have to have been involved in some things; this girl has, and some of them, including her internship at the alumni magazine, are even a bit interesting.</p>

<p>But you do have to have stronger academics than this girl did if you’re going to be a realistic candidate for Cornell. Cornell and other universities at its level are full of students with very high academic credentials and ordinary ECs; in fact, Cornell is one of the places where people who have top academic qualifications but lack the “something special” needed to get into HYPSM end up. </p>

<p>Some people on this thread have described this girl as sophisticated. I think she is exactly the opposite. A sophisticated candidate would not highlight getting an SAT score below Cornell’s average, for example. When I read her article, I got the impression that she thought that her academic accomplishments made her a strong candidate for Cornell. In fact, they made her a weaker-than-average one. And she didn’t seem to know it.</p>

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<p>I’m glad you know exactly how every single person on earth phrases their grades. </p>

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<p>My opinion remains. How can you make a statement like this when you have absolutely zero way of knowing what her grades were based on this article? Why not tell me her GPA since you are such a mindreader? I thought we had precise, fact based people posting on this message board. I hope nobody on here would use this method on something like an SAT question where you have to actually distill hard facts from a problem or reading selection. </p>

<p>This type of thing is incredibly annoying to me. I face it all the time at work, where it inevitably winds up with somebody screwing something up. Fortunately this is just a message board, you can make things up if you want.</p>

<p>One fact we do know is that her SATs are below the average. Another fact that we know is that lots of people get in with SATs below the average. That’s why it’s called “average”. </p>

<p>Actually, even this is an assumption because I don’t know the average SAT - I think she is a little below the 25th%ile on the CDS. </p>

<p>Finally, what is it with you people that makes you want to pile onto this poor kid? She did just get rejected.</p>

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<p>OK, bovertine, let’s ignore the grades because she phrased her comment about them in an ambiguous way. Let’s just look at her SAT score – 1910. That’s low for Cornell. Period.</p>

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<p>^^^^
Agreed. And I suspect her 80 something percentile on the SAT2s is also low for Cornell, although I don’t know.</p>

<p>I just don’t trust perception because my perception of her from the article seems to be completely different than everyone else. I see her (and this is what I infer) as a person who knows she has a lot of advantages going in that she didn’t earn, and is pressured and worried about letting the family down if she doesn’t get chosen.</p>

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<p>Also, in my case, I’m not trying to “pile onto this poor kid.” Rather, I suspect (based on admittedly incomplete information about her academic background) that Cornell probably made a well-reasoned decision not to admit her. I hope she does well at whatever college she ends up attending. Certainly, she writes well, and that’s a big asset.</p>

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<p>I think if she didn’t make it so public the adcom may have admitted her because of her family’s connection to the school. I am sure it’s going to be awkward for some adcoms to run into her mother and aunt at various school gatherings. I am surprised her mother let her write that article, unless she was certain she was a shoo-in, and that may have rubbed adcom the wrong way.</p>

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<p>“No surprise to me. Most colleges don’t require SAT IIs. Only students applying to the top colleges need to take the SAT IIs, so virtually everyone who takes them is extremely smart, and a mid 600s score on the SAT IIs counts for more than it does on the regular SAT.”</p>

<p>UCs required the SAT IIs I think (only reason I took them haha, if I remember correctly). But if you’re saying the curve is harder, that makes me feel better about it lol.</p>

<p>“I don’t see anything wrong with this girl’s ECs, in terms of applying to a Cornell-level college (i.e., one in the lower half of the top 20 national universities in terms of competitiveness). This is not Harvard; you don’t have to have extraordinary accomplishments outside of academics. You just have to have been involved in some things; this girl has, and some of them, including her internship at the alumni magazine, are even a bit interesting.”</p>

<p>THIS. Is what I was trying to say. Cornell is an Ivy, sure, but it is one of the “easier” ones to get into. And I have seen admits to Harvard/Princeton with similar ECs. </p>

<p>Northwestern is very similar in terms of difficulty of admission to CORNELL - so saying you’ve seen people with worse stats admitted to NU just proves my point, really…It’s true it admits a higher percentage of people, but so does UChicago, and idk, people from my school just put Cornell and those kinds of schools on the same level. Maybe we were misguided, but eh.</p>

<p>Yes, I had high SAT scores - and that is the girl’s weakness (and possibly also her grades, but we don’t know).</p>

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<p>USC loves high test scores. NFSF makes it a borderline safety for anyone with decent gpa.</p>

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<p>Haha <em>shrug</em>. I only mentioned UCLA because it is ranked around UVa/UNC-Chapel Hill and Northstarmom said this girl wouldn’t make the cut at those schools or flagship UCs if she was IN STATE. Which I thought was crazy to say, not knowing exactly what her grades were. And I threw USC in there 'cause I assume if someone got a decent-sized scholarship from USC they would likely also be admitted to UCLA (if they were in-state for UCLA, that is).</p>

<p>But yeah totally separate from the Cornell thing…that was all more in response to the other comment.</p>

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<p>Not necessarily. 'SC accept an unhooked NMSF’s with HS transcripts ‘with no grade lower than a B’, but UCLA will not, unless those are mostly all A’s. (At USC, a high psat score will earn a near-automatic scholarship regardless of gpa.)</p>

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<p>Well, I wasn’t a NMSF nor did I tell them what my PSAT was, so, I wasn’t really considering that. But now that I think about it, I do remember kicking myself when I applied because I wished I had studied for the PSAT a bit haha. Lesson to all you parents - make your kids study for the PSAT! It’s worth it!</p>

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<p>FWIW, as someone often praised highly for my writing (and I’m not saying that arrogantly, just in context), I think this article is pretty well written and writing is NOT always literal! The “bake them brownies” line does NOT necessarily mean the writer gave her LOR writers brownies! If I write in a narrative “This is what I like about the house: that I can sit here without question and not say a word, that I can be completely honest and yet still be wrapped in my warm, wishful web of lies,” the character is neither completely honesty nor literally wrapped in a web of lies.</p>

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<p>The article and the accompanying comment are weird.</p>

<p>Her mother’s response begins seeming entitled/bitter (“He didn’t have money but he contributed so much…a branch snapped…blabhlah.”). But then she says, “I guess admissions can’t let someone in just because someone long dead would be pleased.” </p>

<p>That doesn’t sound bitter, to be honest - it sounds really reasonable.</p>

<p>This all seems like some kind of publicity stunt, lol. Like someone called them out on having low-standards for legacies, and then they were like, oh no, we don’t, look at this public announcement in our alumni magazine.</p>

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<p>It’s interesting to me that the Cornell Alumni Magazine identifies its legacy admits. Here is the list from those admitted in 2008–those who were admitted in 2009 will be listed in the summer issue of the magazine.</p>

<p>Legacies<br>
Friday, 10 July 2009 </p>

<p>The 3,756 undergraduate students who entered the University in fall 2008 included 505 who are known to be the children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren of alumni. The information for the following lists was compiled from data provided by the descendants of alumni during the admissions process. Additions and corrections to the lists are welcome. Please send revisions to: Cornell Alumni Magazine, 401 East State St., Suite 301, Ithaca, NY 14850; fax, (607) 272-8532; or e-mail, <a href=“mailto:adr4@cornell.edu.This”>adr4@cornell.edu.This</a> e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it </p>

<p>Descendants of Cornellians in the upcoming freshman class (entering in fall 2009) will be listed in July/August 2010.</p>

<p>According to the information supplied, one student who entered the University in 2008 is a fifth-generation Cornellian: Mary Jerrard is the daughter of Dana E. Jerrard ’80 and Catherine (Vicks) ’80, granddaughter of Dwight E. Vicks Jr. ’54, MBA ’57, great-granddaughter of Albert R. Hatfield Jr. ’27, and great-great-granddaughter of Albert R. Hatfield Sr. 1897.</p>

<p>Seventeen students who entered in 2008 are the great-grandchildren of Cornellians: Amanda Anger [Gerald G. Row ’39]; Timothy Bruhn [Everett J. Rutan 1919]; Carrie Carlton [Marion E. Dennington, DVM ’16]; Andrew Chatham [Joseph F. Kalabza ’24]; Elizabeth Cornell [Daniel J. Carey 1918]; Jeanette Elliot [Harold W. Athoe ’20]; William Gamber [Gladys Heist ’20]; Kevin Giroux [Stephen A. Campion ’21]; Christina Halpin [Paul Halpin ’28]; Michael Handelman [Albert P. Gresser 1917]; Christine Hansen [Henrietta Miller ’27]; James Keady [John Kennedy 1915, PhD 1916 / Charles J. Reichert 1917]; Steven Kwartler [Miles C. Markham 1915]; Erika Olson [Charlotte Fracassi ’31]; Kathleen Perkins [Robert A. McKinney ’20]; Colin Shevlin [Louis J. Rehr 1909]; Erica Sutton [Joseph C. Kaltenbacher ’28].</p>

<p>Sixteen students who entered in 2008 are both grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Cornellians: Sarah Callanan [Arthur F. Rice ’48; Arthur V. Rice 1915]; Robin Davenport [Gordon K. Davenport ’53 and Martha (Kelsey) ’53; Edward Davenport ’20]; Alexandria DeVries [John B. DeVries ’56, BCH ’57, and Roberta (Grunert) ’57; Mildred Bool DeVries ’22]; Elizabeth Drouhard [James H. VanArsdale III ’41 and Suzanne (Jameson) ’46, BS ’45; Jane Gouinlock VanArsdale 1908 / Norris M. Jameson 1911]; Jared Garfinkel [Alan M. Garfinkel ’60, BCE ’61, and Elinor (Ross) '60; Benjamin Garfinkel ’27]; Johanna Jezowski [George F. Lamont ’57; Thomas E. Lamont ’27, PhD ’32, and Mary (Snell) ’33]; Emily Kay [L.William Kay II ’51; Sidney G. Kay ’22]; Felicia Kennedy [Robert D. Kennedy ’54, BME ’55; Thomas Reed Kennedy, MA ’21]; Colin Lounsberry [Stephen M. Lounsberry Jr. ’36; Stephen M. Lounsberry, LLB 1910]; Joshua Neifeld [Martin J. Neifeld ’48, MBA ’49; Morris R. Neifeld 1913]; Rachel Perlman [Jean McConnell Katims ’43; James A. McConnell ’21]; Rachel Repard [Kenneth G. Woodward ’45, BCE ’48; Lacey H.Woodward 1916, MEd ’36]; Emily Ten Eyck [Peter G. Ten Eyck II ’60, BS Ag ’61, and Rose-Marie (Weber), MA ’61, PhD ’65; Peter G.D. Ten Eyck ’30]; Chelsea Thompson [Robert O. Davenport ’50; Edward Davenport ’20]; Anna Woodford [Albert S.Woodford ’45, BCE ’48; Paul B.Woodford 1917 and Louise (Snowden), SP Ag 1918-19]; Gregory Zecchini [Bernard F. Gaffney Jr. ’54; Bernard F. Gaffney ’25].</p>

<p>Six students who entered in 2008 are both children and great- (or great-great-) grandchildren of Cornellians: Justin Churchill [Tom G. Churchill ’73; Erwin L. Malone 1917]; Olivia Prout [James E. Prout ’83; Ellis H. Robison 1918]; William Violette [John B. Violette, DVM ’86, and Pamela J. Kirk ’81, BS Ag ’82, DVM ’86; J. Stanley Kirk, PhD ’31, and Marian (Sharpless), GR ’30-31]; Melinda Zoephel [John C. Zoephel, MBA ’79; Joseph J. C. Strahan 1913]; Carrie Howard [Kathleen Carey Howard ’78; Daniel J. Carey 1918; Frank P. Hatch 1896]; Alyssa Martin [Andrew J. Martin ’86, ME ’87, and Jean (Graef) ’87; Malcolm J. Mann ’36, MD ’39, and Marie (Travis) ’38; Albert R. Mann 1904]. Grace Seymour is the daughter of William M. Seymour ’82, the granddaughter of William E. Seymour, MBA ’58, and the great-great-granddaughter of Samuel T. Maddox 1874</p>

<p>Download the complete listing (72 Kb)
<a href=“http://cornellalumnimagazine.com/images/stories/cam_issues/2009_julaug/legacies.pdf[/url]”>http://cornellalumnimagazine.com/images/stories/cam_issues/2009_julaug/legacies.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As for the young lady who is the subject of this thread, her stats were not competitive for Cornell. I have read somewhere that at some schools a legacy hook might be worth as much as 100 extra SAT points, but even that would not have made her a compelling candidate. My D attends a highly rated private school in suburban Philadelphia and has better stats than Arianna White (never has received a B in any of her classes, has higher SAT scores, and probably better ECs), and I don’t think we would consider her to have been competitive for Cornell. My guess is that Arianna and her family are wondering now if the article was such a good idea–not to mention that the public rejection would be hard on anyone.</p>

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<p>Minor correction to my post–
D has never received LOWER than a B in any of her classes.</p>